Do Pharmacists have the right to deny??

[slugshooter]

The following is the oath that pharmacists must take upon entering their profession.



At this time, I vow to devote my professional life to the service of all humankind through the profession of pharmacy.



I will consider the welfare of humanity and relief of human suffering my primary concerns.

I will apply my knowledge, experience, and skills to the best of my ability to assure optimal drug therapy outcomes for the patients I serve.

I will keep abreast of developments and maintain professional competency in my profession of pharmacy.

I will embrace and advocate change in the professional of pharmacy that improves patient care.

I take these vows voluntarily with the full realization of responsiblity with which I am entrusted by the public.



Now, considering the above, should pharmacists have the right to deny filling a legally obtained prescription on the basis of a moral objection. Much debate is centering on pharmacists refusing to fill prescriptions for Viagra, birth control, and morning after pills, apparently, these same pharmacists have no problem doling out Percoset, Codeine and Oxycontin which is highly addictive and is more troublesome than the aforementioned.

I believe that as a pharmacist, you have a duty and obligation to fulfill the duties of your profession regardless of whether you agree with the drugs being prescribed. If you don't like having to fill birth control or viagra, get out of the profession, because you are causing more harm than good. It is rather hypocritical to me anyways to oppose birth control but have no problem filling addictive drugs by the hundreds.

[Andrea]

Good question. Why would you refuse to fill a prescription for Viagra???? I can understand not wanting to give it to a sexual predator---but how would you know the person was one ( without doing an extensive on-line search)? And birth control....unless the person is very young then I don't know why you wouldn't want to give that either.
Morning after pill....not sure how I feel about that one. Hope I never have to have it prescribed. I can understand a rape victim's need for it though.

As far as Oxycontin is concerned...I believe that drug should be banned. My father was given a prescription for that after his neck surgery. He took it and said it made him a totally different person and did NOT like it at all. He never took another one. There are people I know in my hometown that are heavily addicted to it and cannot live without it.

It would be nice to hear a pharmacist's opinion on this though. The only thing I can come up with is that like physicians...they can pick and choose procedures to perform. ( An ob/gyn does NOT have to perform abortions if he or she doesn't want to)

[fisherguy]

I say no. There are some jobs where you are taking an oath to help everyone wheather you agree with their decisions or not(as long as they are legal). IF a police officer is assigned crowd control outside an abortion clinic where there are protests that is their job. Even if they think abortion is wrong, it is still their job to provide that protection. Personally jobs such as police officers, doctors, pharmacists etc. come with an oath that will likely require you to do something you would disagree with off duty. If you can't do that, then you better find a career where you can choose who you help and how.

[stevebeilgard]

i say yes! if a doctor is ordered to perform an abortion by his superious, must he? i think he has the right, no duty, to follow his conscience and faith, and deny the duty. fisherguys cop doing crowd controll is really a secondary duty. the officers duty is crowd controll, not doing the abortion. even though he may not like abortions he still has to do his job, which is simple crowd controll

[slugshooter]

We're not talking abortion here Steve. We're talking about pharmacists refusing to fill a legally obtained prescription because they don't agree with the use. Right now it's Viagra and birth control. What happens when someone decides that they don't agree with giving children Ritalin so they start refusing to fill those, or someone who believes that painkillers are painfully addictive so instead of filling the 'script to relieve someones pain they tell them to deal with the pain. How about if you are a smoker and you get a 'script for Zyban to help you quit, maybe he thinks people shouldn't smoke and you should quit on your own.

It's the pharmacists job to fill the 'script, I feel sorry for those in small towns with 1 pharmacist, they're kinda stuck aren't they. When you take an oath, you are supposed to follow that oath. When you join the military, you swear an oath to preserve,protect and defend the US, whether you agree with the war that might be going on at the time or not.

A pharmacist does not nor should not have the right to decide what pills I put in my body, thats for the doctor and me to decide, thats why the doctor went to 8+ years of school and has a PhD vs the 6 years for pharmacy.

[fisherguy]

[ QUOTE ]
i say yes! if a doctor is ordered to perform an abortion by his superious, must he? i think he has the right, no duty, to follow his conscience and faith, and deny the duty. fisherguys cop doing crowd controll is really a secondary duty. the officers duty is crowd controll, not doing the abortion. even though he may not like abortions he still has to do his job, which is simple crowd controll

[/ QUOTE ]
My example is the same, the doctor did it by writing the perscription, the Pahrmacists role is simply to put pills in a bottle and explaing the drug to the customer. These are not drugs that are killing anyone, or harming anyone else. IF you are morally opposed to birth control you should have thought about that before taking the oath.

[buckee]

The problem isn't with the pharmacists, it's with the person/persons responsible for giving the prescriptions.
Feds Try to Deny Viagara to Sex Offenders

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050523/ap_on_re_us/sex_offenders_viagra

Audit finds that sex offenders get Viagra

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7956459/

Viagra For Sex Offenders

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/05/23/politics/main697125.shtml

[fisherguy]

That is a scary one buckee, i was reading about that whole fiasco yesterday. I think the issue slugshooter meant was about the general public, not sex offenders. I think we all have similar ideas as to what should be happening to sex offenders. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[buckee]

sex offenders are in our general public though...that's the point

[Strut_Buster]

I plan to become a pharmacist and if the perscription is legal I would fill it eevn if i feel my morals are being violated. Pharmacists can consult with a phasician if they feel there is a over use or misuse of a drug. Then again I would have no problem filling a morning afterpill unless its the same person getting it on a regular basis. If this was the case I'd direct the lady to the pill on top of the morning after perscription.

[wtnhunt]

[ QUOTE ]
Much debate is centering on pharmacists refusing to fill prescriptions for Viagra, birth control, and morning after pills, apparently, these same pharmacists have no problem doling out Percoset, Codeine and Oxycontin which is highly addictive and is more troublesome than the aforementioned.


[/ QUOTE ]

How do you know this is true? Did the media say so? If it is true, I would say pharmacists should have some discretion at giving out meds, but they should not be able to refuse anyone a physician prescribed med based on their opinions. In other words they should have to take any concerns up with a physician if they question a prescription rather than denying to give it out.

[Mathews XT Man]

First....show me your footnote on where you got this urban legan....??? They will have to give an account to God at judgement day, I have no problem with them making a call on abortion drugs. I do not believe your info is correct on viagra, if it just came from the media, I have not heard this one before. However,....this is off topic...but how can that even begin to compare to the liberal judges who are legislating from the bench, rather than actually following the constitution, which they do take an oath to uphold???? OR better yet the doctors that perform abortion and kill babies....are they not sworn to protect life??????

[slugshooter]

[ QUOTE ]
First....show me your footnote on where you got this urban legan....??? They will have to give an account to God at judgement day, I have no problem with them making a call on abortion drugs. I do not believe your info is correct on viagra, if it just came from the media, I have not heard this one before. However,....this is off topic...but how can that even begin to compare to the liberal judges who are legislating from the bench, rather than actually following the constitution, which they do take an oath to uphold???? OR better yet the doctors that perform abortion and kill babies....are they not sworn to protect life??????

[/ QUOTE ]

No urban legend here Oneida. Don't change the subject.

[slugshooter]

[ QUOTE ]
The problem isn't with the pharmacists, it's with the person/persons responsible for giving the prescriptions.
Feds Try to Deny Viagara to Sex Offenders

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050523/ap_on_re_us/sex_offenders_viagra

Audit finds that sex offenders get Viagra

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7956459/

Viagra For Sex Offenders

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/05/23/politics/main697125.shtml




[/ QUOTE ]

That's a separate issue than what I was getting at Steve, but important nonetheless, convicted sex offenders were/are getting free viagra in New York I think, I guess they can't have sex with their wives anymore either, but, I understand the problems that could arise.

[wtnhunt]

I saw the other night on the news that viagara was being paid for with tax dollars for sex offenders still in prison and heard something about them trying to stop that. Is this story related sluggo?

I guess in that respect, absolutely pharmacists should not be filling those scripts, nor should physicians be writing them. Think there should be some investigation into how they were getting these scripts.

[slugshooter]

Nope, completely separate issue from what I initially posted here, although I did mention that in an earlier thread. As far as I know though, Viagra doesn't increase the drive though does it, just allows someone to rise to the occasion right?

[stevebeilgard]

so, i guess that if some doctor, moral or immoral, writes a prescription, the phamasist must fill it? i think not. he has the right to follow his heart, and you have the right to go elsewhere.

[wtnhunt]

[ QUOTE ]
Viagra doesn't increase the drive though does it, just allows someone to rise to the occasion right?


[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, think so.

[slugshooter]

[ QUOTE ]
so, i guess that if some doctor, moral or immoral, writes a prescription, the phamasist must fill it? i think not. he has the right to follow his heart, and you have the right to go elsewhere.

[/ QUOTE ]

And the pharmacist has the right to find a new profession if he doesn't like what his involves.

[robk]

the only time a pharmicist is allowed to deny the use of the an rx is if they think it is a fake and they will usually call the dr in question and if they think it is a forged script then they will call the police as well. they are not to make judgement calls on a drug due to their beliefs not acceptable no matter what the drug is and what it is for unless it is a drug that could harm the patient. if your unable to fill because of beliefs then you should let another pahrmicist fill the script. and then i would if i was the head person talk to this person bvecause it is not their job to refuse unless what was stated earlier and if the person wants viagra or any other drug that will stop pregnancy then you need to find a new job in a different field that won't put you in a position to go against your beliefs
robk

[KSNimrod]

You should go with your convictions or you'll regret it later. If a pharmacist objects to an aspect of their job or a particular prescription they should stand their ground. If that means their boss tells them to hit the road so be it, at least they can look themselves in the mirror when they go home. If they are the boss, then how can someone tell them "You HAVE to serve me."? They have a choice in the matter so long as they are willing to pay the consequences. (As we all do)

[stevebeilgard]

so, slugg, according to your theory, all doctors must perform abortions, or find another profession? if a car salesman is told to sell a known lemon to an unsuspecting old lady, he must or change professions? if a fireman is told don't put out the fire at a home because the homeowner won't pay his taxes... you get the idea

[horst]

If they arent willing to fill legally obtained prescriptions, they shouldnt be in that line of work, regardless of what the prescription is for.Theyre jobs not to question a doctors orders.If they think its illegal, or dangerous for the patient then its understandable but not because they are morally opposed to it.If they wanted to be someones priest they shoulda persued that line of work instead.

[KSNimrod]

[ QUOTE ]
If they arent willing to fill legally obtained prescriptions, they shouldnt be in that line of work, regardless of what the prescription is for.Theyre jobs not to question a doctors orders.If they think its illegal, or dangerous for the patient then its understandable but not because they are morally opposed to it.If they wanted to be someones priest they shoulda persued that line of work instead.

[/ QUOTE ]

We'll probably just have to disagree on this one. Money is marked "legal tender" here in the states. Businesses still have the right to refuse service. In the situation mentioned above, the pharmacists aren't questioning the doctor's order, but rather saying I can't fill that in good conscience. They aren't trying to be someone's priest but rather trying to remain accountable to themselves and likely their God.

[horst]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If they arent willing to fill legally obtained prescriptions, they shouldnt be in that line of work, regardless of what the prescription is for.Theyre jobs not to question a doctors orders.If they think its illegal, or dangerous for the patient then its understandable but not because they are morally opposed to it.If they wanted to be someones priest they shoulda persued that line of work instead.

[/ QUOTE ]

We'll probably just have to disagree on this one. Money is marked "legal tender" here in the states. Businesses still have the right to refuse service. In the situation mentioned above, the pharmacists aren't questioning the doctor's order, but rather saying I can't fill that in good conscience. They aren't trying to be someone's priest but rather trying to remain accountable to themselves and likely their God.

[/ QUOTE ]

Regular businuesses do have the right to refuse service to anyone, but pharmacists take an oath just like doctors do.That pretty much eliminates the right to refuse service, its like saying a doctor has the right to turn away an emergency patient on the basis of thier lifestyle.Like I said, if they cant hack it they shouldnt of got into that line of workIn the meantime theyre dispensing addictive painkillers and mood altering drugs without batting an eye, Ive seen these things screw up people, even whole families, a lot worse than any form of birth control or sexual aid is ever going to.And thats what these things were discussing boil down to, birth control and something to aid you in the act of having sex.Theyre in the same ranks as the police, firefighters, doctors and nurses, they dont get to use thier discretion as to when someone needs help or they dont.

[slugshooter]

[ QUOTE ]
so, slugg, according to your theory, all doctors must perform abortions, or find another profession? if a car salesman is told to sell a known lemon to an unsuspecting old lady, he must or change professions? if a fireman is told don't put out the fire at a home because the homeowner won't pay his taxes... you get the idea

[/ QUOTE ]


All Doctors aren't going to perform abortions because not all of them are OB-GYN's or whatever area of medicine that performs them. Could you imagine going to a podiatrist and saying, hey, you're a doctor, I want an abortion. There are specialized areas in medicine, there are none in the pharmaceutical industry, well, a cousin of mine is a Nuclear Pharmacist, but he does cancer research.

Pharmacists go into the profession knowing they would have to dispense certain types of drugs. Like I said, it is hypocritical for the same pharmacist to refuse to fill a birth control script but have no problem filling a highly addictive painkiller, and if they did refuse to fill that, then there aren't many drugs left to fill, except anti-biotics.

[wtnhunt]

Have heard of pharmacists not filling scripts for pain killers for addicts. Have been in a dentists office when a person came in and had a serious fit because the dentist would not write a prescription for a pain killer. That dentist got on the phone and called around to pharamacies while I was sitting write there in the waiting room warning that this personwas an addict and that they might try to get a script at another dentist. Does the dentist have the right to make that type call? I think so. Think pharamacists do have the right to use their discretion. As far as going against their beliefs and moraljudgements, I bet that does not happen all that often.

[horst]

[ QUOTE ]
That dentist got on the phone and called around to pharamacies while I was sitting write there in the waiting room warning that this personwas an addict and that they might try to get a script at another dentist. Does the dentist have the right to make that type call? I think so. Think pharamacists do have the right to use their discretion

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats an alltogether different scenario, giving narcotics like painkillers out without a medical reason to do so isnt a judegement call, its illegal to do so.Had he filled the guys prescription for painkillers just because the guy demanded him the dentist could have lost his license.In a case like that the pharmacist also has the right to question the prescription.If a guys bringing in illegaly obtained prescriptions and the pharmacist notices he shouldnt fill them, its against the law.But the key word here is illegal

My uncles kind of a loser and awhile back he got hooked on painkillers.It was crazy how easy it was to get them.If you goto different doctors and skip around to a few different pharmacies to get them filled you can get massive quantities of this crap for years before anyone notices.He was going to emergency rooms up to 5 hours away to get new prescriptions before someone finally caught on to what he was doing.

[wtnhunt]

[ QUOTE ]
In a case like that the pharmacist also has the right to question the prescription.

[/ QUOTE ]

Denial is denial. If the guy got a script from another dentist or physician and went to the pharmacist who had recieved the call, does that pharmacist still not have the obligation to fill the script? According to what some are saying in this thread the pharmacist has no right to use his/her own judgement and information they may gain on a certain customer to not give them meds. I personally think they should be able to use their own discretion to some degree.