The Bible- Fiction or Non-fiction? [Archive]

popgun

06-19-2005, 10:16 PM

Yes, the Bible is true.
One of the first things brought to my attention was that old book of books.
There comes a time within the life of everyone that no friend can be depended upon, and he is left entirely to his own resources. The Bible is that resource that I have relied on and will continue to rely on as my rule and guide for my faith and practice.
It guides me to all truth, directs my path down the highway of happiness, and points out to me the whole duty of mankind.
This book contains the mind of God, the state of mankind, and the way to salvation. It points out the doom of sinners and the happiness of believers.
Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are unchanged.
I have faith that a person can read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice it to be holy.
It furnishes light to guide me, strength to support me, and comfort to cheer me.
Through it, heaven is opened, paradise restored, and the gates of Hades disclosed.
It was furnished to us in life to prepare us for the judgment.
It is our choice; and as we choose, we also choose our own destiny.
In prosperity or in adversity, I will never forget it.
When at last my trembling hands drop forever the grasp of this terrestrial life, I hope to hear from Him who sits as the supreme judge, the welcome words. ”Well done my good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things; I will make you ruler over many things. Enter now into the joy of thy Lord.”

Yes, I believe the Bible is true.
This last week I have read the many post and replies and must admit that I am disappointed and disillusioned by some of our forum members.
It is your own choice to make.
You do not believe, and do not want those who do believe, to pray for you.
Not long ago, I read here of a kindly older gentleman who passed away. The writer mentioned that the old gent, (his grandfather), never went to sleep at night feeling guilty for anything he had prayed about. I can just about guarantee that the writer was mentioned in many of the old gent’s prayers.

I will continue to believe what I believe, and allow you to believe what you believe without me interfering with my prayers, and I will not say anything more.

…..popgun

MadHuntinPastor

06-19-2005, 11:05 PM

I would rather just testify to what has happened in me than argue about the truth of the Bible. (which has tons of evidence of being historically correct)Jesus has changed my life. I feel Him and talk with Him. You can call me crazy....but I know what I feel. Next time you have a headache try and prove it to me that you aren't just making it up and/or just a radical headache fanatic believer. Same thing I can only testify to what has happened in me. It is your choice to believe it or not.

If I'm wrong about this Bible/Jesus/God thing.....well I've still lived my life and not missed out on much. If I'm correct though....I'm going to heaven forever!!

If you unbelievers are correct then...Oh well....had a good life.....now it's over and we all are dead.

If you are wrong............

fisherguy

06-19-2005, 11:18 PM

Theres that ever present "you have more to lose than me" of "you're going to ****" argument. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Strut_Buster

06-19-2005, 11:19 PM

I've read the bible, stories are pretty far fetched in some spots. But then again it has helped me in some tough times. I don't believe the bible word for word. That would be silly. There's no actual hard core proof, i see the bible as an extended metaphor in spots. But then again its a Religon or a Faith. I believe in in jesus. i figure i should if i don't wanna end up in **** if there is that chance that this stuff is real. But then again you look at all these religons. Who's right and wrong? Alot of times i figure religon was used to explain events unexplainable by early man's brain. But thats just me talkin.

Mathews XT Man

06-20-2005, 05:07 AM

Have you ever looked at an ant hill and thought that they figure they are the only ones in existance..??? Now step back and look at earth....This all just happened by "chance"??? somehow a big "bang" created this out of nothing?? The evidence is all around you, and in you with the very air you breath! You are the evidence, it stares back at you every morning in the mirror!! You know..we were all taught history in school...I guess since that was just written by man, it must not be correct either then, and thats all just a good read, all the wars are just someones imagination, we never discovered America, we never went to the moon, Kennedy never got shot,space shuttle never blew up on lift off....nor disintegrated on reentry, heck 911 never happened!! heck, we cant beleive that man could keep an acurate record of events, we know how flawed of thinking that is!! Well, the truth of the matter is folks.....We are all living on borrowed time, time is a never ending sequence, past, present, future......you will spend eternity somewhere.....just where is your decision,I know where Im headed, by the grace of God who owns everything( he's the one who was taken out of most our history books, by man), the Bible still includes Him in it, which is our most accurate history book inspired by His spirit so "man"would have a guide in which how we should best live our life.
NON_FICTION

preacherman

06-20-2005, 09:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Theres that ever present "you have more to lose than me" of "you're going to ****" argument. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Argument? Fact? Fiction? Like I said in the other post, you believe what you believe........let me believe what I want and choose to believe and we will leave the results up to our Maker!

P.S. Don't believe MadHuntinPastor ever said "You have more to lose than me" or "you're going to ****"..........please don't misunderstand me, I don't have a beef with you, but if you are going to quote, then at least quote what the person says in the context in which it was written.

JimT

06-20-2005, 09:52 AM

Mostley if not all fiction...But hey,,thats me. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Eveloution makes more sense to me at this time.

HarvDog

06-20-2005, 09:55 AM

An extremely book on this topic is "Evidence That Demands a Verdict" by Josh McDowell.

slugshooter

06-20-2005, 11:29 AM

I was going to try and stay out of most of these religious threads that have popped up recently, preferring instead to sit back and just read, but I figured I would weigh in on this one.

I used to believe like many of the others on here, that the bible was the infallible, unmistakeable, accurate account of everything that has happened for the last 10000-15000 years. Needless to say I don't believe that anymore. A post was made earlier about recent history being recorded by man and how it must be false because it was written by man, well, they didn't have 24 hour cable news back then where everyone in the world knew exactly what was happening minutes or seconds after it happened, in fact, if an ant hill is in the middle of a forest, then, yes, those ants probably do think they are the only one's in existence. Much like 15000 years ago or so, whoever wrote Genesis, their knowledge was limited to what they knew at the time, how else are they going to explain how they came to be. It is much easier to say that God created a garden in a desert, created every animal in existence, created man and then a woman from a mans rib, then say 1 billion years ago there was a massive explosion that created earth and so on and so on. Man's comprehension of things was limited to his own intelligence at the time, which wasn't much. Do I believe that the billions of people in this world today sprang from the offspring of two people in a garden, absolutely not. Do I believe that Noah and his family built a big ship and only took his family and two of every animal on that ship, and that they repopulated the world after the flood waters receded,absolutely not, but the story of Noah also resembles the story of the same time period of a Sumerian king who loaded up all his earthly possessions when the Nile flooded and he floated down the river until it was safe to land somewhere. I believe most of the Old Testament to be a mixture of accurate ancient history, because some things can be proven, for example, my cousin is a biblical archaeologist and he sent my mother some broken pottery pieces from the ancient city of Hazor that he helped excavate, the same city that the bible says Joshua ransacked. But I also believe that the Old Testament contains a lot of tribal folklore passed down from generation to generation.

On to the New Testament, first off, I do believe Jesus Christ existed, and not just because of faith, but because there are secular records of his living also, Jocephus for one. Do I believe that Jesus performed miracles, yes, much the same way that God performs miracles through his servants today, do I believe that he was the manifestation of God in the bodily form, I used to, but not so sure now. Was he crucified, absolutely, secular records also prove that, was he resurrected, God only knows. I also have issues with what happened to the New Testament after it was compiled, because hey, we all know that it wasn't written as it happened right? we all know that right? Unlike modern history that is written as it happens, the story of Jesus life wasn't written until 50 years after his death, maybe thats way there are so many contradictions between Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. As far as it's accuracy, I have to dispute that on the basis of proof that it was changed to suit the needs of the early "Christian" leaders like Emperor Constantine, remember, he was the one who changed the Holy Roman Empires "official" religion to Christianity for profit, he was the one who changed the pagan holidays into "Christian" ones, remember, when you send your kids out on an Easter egg hunt during Sunday school, they are paying tribute to the Roman fertility goddess. Another thing that the New Testament focuses a lot on is prophecy, but amazingly a lot of the "prophecy" in there was fulfilled many many years ago, I have a bible somewhere that lists them, also, I saw an interesting program the other night talking about Revelation, and they bring up the number 666, how is it in the bible, "his number was 6 thousanf times 6 thousand time 6." Well, they claim in this program that in biblical times, an interesting "game" or code that the Jews enjoyed during their time of Roman occupation from assigning numbers to names and letters. If you take the number 666 using an ancient hebrew alphabet, you come up with "Nero", the evil Roman emperor Nero, maybe thats who they were calling a beast, but here's the kicker, an ancient translation of Revelation was found with that particlur passage, the number in that passage was 661. I can't remember the particular emperor that number correlated out to, but it also proves another point. A human being is not infallible, he makes mistakes, what is the right number in this case for the mark of the beast, is it 666, or 661?

I will end with this. 500 years ago the earth was flat and the earth was the center of the universe,(remember, people were persecuted for saying otherwise, by the church no less) imagine what we'll know 500 years from now.

DWC

06-20-2005, 11:30 AM

how many people have come to accept christ while tring to prove that the bible was false far to many for me to know about off the top of my head, but there are some who are well know christian speakers today who try to disprove it and gave there heart and soul to christ...

spyderpancake

06-20-2005, 09:30 PM

Well I better give my point of view as I started this topic! I believe that the Bible is the God-breathed Infallible Word of God. I believe that everything that it says happened, happened. I believe that all humans came from Adam and Eve. I believe that Noah built an ark and that humanity was wiped out besides him and his family and that we are all his descendents. I believe that Jonah was actually swallowed by a whale. I believe all these things that are hard to believe. I don't believe that there is one single error in the King James Bible. I have seen God work in my life enough to know that He is real. I know of lots of people who were die-hard atheists or just agnostics, but came to Jesus and their lifes were changed. But I don't know of one person who was a true Christian, who had a real relationship with Christ, who turned to Atheism afterwards. I'm telling you, once you get it, you don't want to go back!!!

slugshooter

06-20-2005, 11:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
But I don't know of one person who was a true Christian, who had a real relationship with Christ, who turned to Atheism afterwards. I'm telling you, once you get it, you don't want to go back!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, not the atheism part, but more agnostic than anything else nowadays, nice to meet ya!! And to think, I almost became a Pentecostal preacher, but there are too many contradictions in the bible for me to be able to stand up in front of a group of people and tell them that everything in the bible is word for word true, not to mention that 5 Billion people coming from 2 is statistically impossible over 12,000 years, plus, isn't there something in the bible about incest being wrong, because if two people populated the world, that is some hardcore incest going on.

johnf

06-21-2005, 05:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Theres that ever present "you have more to lose than me" of "you're going to ****" argument. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a good argument ****'s a bad place, we don't want you to be there.

johnf

06-21-2005, 05:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Mostley if not all fiction...But hey,,thats me. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Eveloution makes more sense to me at this time.

[/ QUOTE ]

So where are all the skeletons from all these "missing links"? Most bioligist will tell you when backed into a corner that there is absolutely no real evidence that evilution is real.

SaskMan

06-21-2005, 05:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So where are all the skeletons from all these "missing link

[/ QUOTE ]

Who needs skeletons. I'm sure I don't have to tell you what mammal.....besides humans are the only ones to menstrate every 28 days, like humans, as well as carry a pregnancy to term for 40 weeks, like humans. Why look for skeletons when the "missing links" are walking around with their opposable thumbs.

johnf

06-21-2005, 07:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I almost became a Pentecostal preacher, but there are too many contradictions in the bible for me to be able to stand up in front of a group of people and tell them that everything in the bible is word for word true, not to mention that 5 Billion people coming from 2 is statistically impossible over 12,000 years, plus, isn't there something in the bible about incest being wrong, because if two people populated the world, that is some hardcore incest going on.

[/ QUOTE ]

If Adam and Eve had 4 children, Cain, Able and their wives and each subsiquent couple had 4 children then after 50 generations there would have been 2,251,799,813,685,248. If you figure a 30 year generation then that gives us 400 generations to grow to a number of 8,000,000,000. It is therefore easily possible to have many more than the 8 billion that we've got.

I guess if you figured a really, really big infant mortality rate, that would have made sence.

For someone who almost became a preacher, you don't know the bible very well. The reference to insest is in the book of Leviticus where Moses was giving the law. Befor this there was no law written down. Before that we have the case of Noah's daughters replentishing the Earth. God didn't tell them not to marry their cousins.

So lets think science here and see why we shouldn't commit insest, other than it's just nasty.

The problem with insest is that any chromizonal anomalies that are in a family will give the resulting child a multiple risk in having birth defects. If we assume that Adam and Eve were created then we must also asume that their bodies were gentetically perfect with no anomalies. If this is true then there would have been no genetic reason to not procreate within the family.

Most people who believe the bible contradicts itself have either not read it, or have not read it enough to decern the meaning of changes in the text.

johnf

06-21-2005, 07:20 PM

You seem like a very smart guy Sask, that wasn't a very good answer for a guy of your obvious intelligence. (not ment to be condisinding)

The only evidence that I see of evolution is the fact that there are species that no longer live. But, there is not any counterpart that they left behind to call it evilution. I will give evilutionist this, survival of the fittest.

The only real evolution to me is the fact that weaker species tend to go extinct.

spyderpancake

06-21-2005, 10:00 PM

Slugshooter, did you have a real relationship with Christ, like I said in my claim? From your posts, I would say no. And please show me some of the "many contradictions" that you claim the Bible is full of.

slugshooter

06-21-2005, 11:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Slugshooter, did you have a real relationship with Christ, like I said in my claim? From your posts, I would say no. And please show me some of the "many contradictions" that you claim the Bible is full of.

[/ QUOTE ]

You use my posts as proof that I didn't have a "real" relationship with Christ, I had a relationship that was very real, so I became disillusioned over the years, it happens to many. many people. Like I said, I used to believe word for word everything in the bible was true, I don't anymore, simple as that. But don't go questioning any relationships I had 10+ years ago when you don't know jack about me junior.

slugshooter

06-21-2005, 11:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]

For someone who almost became a preacher, you don't know the bible very well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, excuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me for not knowing the exact place in the bible that incest is condemned, you know the book, but can you give me the chapter and verse without looking it up, I doubt it. Lets see, I also haven't read the bible back to back everyday of my life and haven't read a whole lot of it over the past 10+ years, so one tends to forget some things after awhile, heck, I can't hardly remember what I read last week. I feel that was a pretty ignorant statement there johnf, of course, you did say that Atheists don't contribute to society.

slugshooter

06-21-2005, 11:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]

If Adam and Eve had 4 children, Cain, Able and their wives and each subsiquent couple had 4 children then after 50 generations there would have been 2,251,799,813,685,248. If you figure a 30 year generation then that gives us 400 generations to grow to a number of 8,000,000,000. It is therefore easily possible to have many more than the 8 billion that we've got.

[/ QUOTE ]

One would have to believe that Adam and Eve actually existed to believe in those figures you gave us, and since I believe the story of Adam and Eve was ancient mans way of explaining how he came to be in a world of which he knew only of where he lived and the few people he came in contact with. Whoever wrote Genesis was a victim of living in a sheltered world of which he only knew of his immediate area and his immediate people around him. He had no idea what was 500 miles away let alone on the other side of the world and other people who have lived.

You are at peace believing what you believe, and I am at peace believing what I believe. Let's just end it at that. It took me a long time of believing just like you to get where I am at today, and I am completely happy and secure in my future. Because even though I am not a "churchboy" like I used to be, I am saved and believe in Jesus Christ and who he is, God gave me a mind to think, and thats exactly what I do with it.

SaskMan

06-22-2005, 12:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You seem like a very smart guy Sask, that wasn't a very good answer for a guy of your obvious intelligence. (not ment to be condisinding)

[/ QUOTE ]

I won't be offended if you can give me reason why it is not a good answer other than a quote from the book you believe so much in. I gave and example of what I see as evolution you may see it as a stupid answer b/c you don't believe in it but from where I sit, it is very much logical.

buckee

06-22-2005, 12:44 AM

The United Nations World Population organization put the current world
population growth at 1.7% per year (that's not including aborted babies). Under developed countries have an
annual growth of 2.4%. If you begin with only 2 people (Adam and Eve) and
figure in a population growth of 2% per year, the current world population
would only take 4,000 years. Figure in famine, disease and war and 6,000
years is a realistic timeline - much more realistic that billions of years.

If you calculate billions of years as the evolutionist argue, the world could not hold the amount of people.
There is a reason why evolutionist never mention population growth. It doesn't fit their end
result. Evolution only sounds credible because evolution advocates toss out any evidence that does not support their predetermined outcome. Evolution
as a belief system only survives because people take everything at face value and refuse to look outside of evolutionary science. Anything that
proves to contradict evolution is labeled as religious and cast aside.

TreeWalker

06-22-2005, 09:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
So Jesus, please stop by. I'd like to talk.........

[/ QUOTE ]

Well Dg...that's a step in the right direction.....even as misguided as it may seem... http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

TreeWalker

06-22-2005, 09:57 AM

AS far as the Bible is concerned, yes I believe and hang on every word.......no matter who or how it get's twisted around, it's contents still speak to and apply to our every day lives........for you non-beleivers, if you would take half of the energy you spend trying to discredit the Bible, and apply it towards simply trying to understand God's meaning, we would all be in a better place..........

Speaking of discrediting......no bigger argument goes on than those between scientists, no matter what the subject......It's to bad many will waste there lives trying to prove their point and discredit their colleague's...........I'd rather rely on faith and a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.....the energy it takes is renewable and the benifits attainable....

fisherguy

06-22-2005, 11:05 AM

Buckee, now you are spreading the nonsense from that website! The part i refer to is that they try to discredit evolution using calculations that say humans have existed for billions of years. Nobody claims that! Using such obviously flawed, and false statistics and arguments discredits any rational arguments you make on a subject.

buckee

06-22-2005, 11:28 AM

OK fisherguy..set me straight...How long has man been here ?? http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

spyderpancake

06-22-2005, 06:46 PM

slugshooter,how can you say you had a real relationship with Christ and you don't believe that he did anything that he said he did?

slugshooter

06-22-2005, 07:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
slugshooter,how can you say you had a real relationship with Christ and you don't believe that he did anything that he said he did?

[/ QUOTE ]

Think about it. It isn't that hard now is it. Like I have said many times , I used to believe absolutely, positively just like 90% of the others on here. You remind me a lot of myself when I was your age, 18 right? Full of righteousness, just knowing that what you believe is exactly right and everyone else is wrong. Guess what? I grew up and stopped believing I was right about everything and everyone else was wrong and started believing that what someone else believes is their business, not mine, and it wasn't my place to tell them any different. If I am wrong, God will set me straight, but I am happy with what I believe and I feel that God is directly responsible for what I believe. You obviously are happy with what you believe, more power to ya. But it should be quite obvious that when I had a strong relationship with Christ, I obviously believed exactly how you did.

And don't mistake what I post as an absolute belief, when I make a post about religion, unless I say this is what I believe, it is more a question posed to other members and thoughts just to get people thinking. You can usually tell the difference by the ?????????

spyderpancake

06-22-2005, 09:51 PM

slugshooter, i would like to apologize for anything i have said that is offensive to you. i don't want to make you mad or insult you. I am just having a hard time understanding how anyone who had a relationship with Christ, who was led by Him and had fellowship with Him, and knew that He was real, could doubt that what is in the Bible is true. I guess like you said, you have your reasons. But I can tell you, if I didn't completely believe God and His Word, i couldn't and wouldn't believe Him at all. I wouldn't stake my eternity on someone I didn't trust. But that is me and you are entitled to whatever you want to believe, and I won't try to change you. By the way, anything I say in these posts is not to offend anyone, I just want to see how people think.

johnf

06-23-2005, 01:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You seem like a very smart guy Sask, that wasn't a very good answer for a guy of your obvious intelligence. (not ment to be condisinding)

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no evidence that evilution is sound science. There is not way to prove it unless you plan to live millions of years.

I won't be offended if you can give me reason why it is not a good answer other than a quote from the book you believe so much in. I gave and example of what I see as evolution you may see it as a stupid answer b/c you don't believe in it but from where I sit, it is very much logical.

[/ QUOTE ]

My sister, who has a PHD in Animal Science and Micro biology, got into this discussion whith another prof. and the prof in question conceeded that there was no way that he could back up any claims to evilution.

The fact is that stating similarities among groups of animals does not show a corrilation that can be tied to evilution. If you claimed that, then you must also say that different races of humans are higher up or lower down the ladder.

I could just as easily argue that all of these similarities are part of God's great plan. A 28 day menstration cycle only makes sence. A woman who has a regular cycle could plan events based on the phases of the moon. Apes may have an apposible thumb because God wanted them to be able to more easily grab a banana or climb a tree. There was an animal that was built like a geraffe but with a shorter neck. They lived at the same time, but the shorter necked one died out. Maybe that's because the longer necked one ate all the food first. Btw there is no animal in between the 2. Just these two animals that lived in the same region at the same time. There is no evidence that the short neck one ever evolved, just that it died out.

slugshooter

06-23-2005, 11:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
There was an animal that was built like a geraffe but with a shorter neck. They lived at the same time, but the shorter necked one died out. Maybe that's because the longer necked one ate all the food first.

[/ QUOTE ]

And do we know what that is called? Survival of the fittest. And who is responsible for that discovery? Charles Darwin himself.

TreeWalker

06-23-2005, 11:48 AM

I'm thinking God had a pretty good handle on it long before Darwin..... http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

johnf

06-23-2005, 01:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

For someone who almost became a preacher, you don't know the bible very well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, excuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me for not knowing the exact place in the bible that incest is condemned, you know the book, but can you give me the chapter and verse without looking it up, I doubt it. Lets see, I also haven't read the bible back to back everyday of my life and haven't read a whole lot of it over the past 10+ years, so one tends to forget some things after awhile, heck, I can't hardly remember what I read last week. I feel that was a pretty ignorant statement there johnf, of course, you did say that Atheists don't contribute to society.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is pointing out someones glaring theological mistake an ignorant statement. Were talking about a thousand year difference here.

Try not to put words in my mout here sluggo, I never said athiest never did anything, I asked what they did. There is a difference.

By the way, I don't remember anyone giving any specific examples. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

johnf

06-23-2005, 01:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There was an animal that was built like a geraffe but with a shorter neck. They lived at the same time, but the shorter necked one died out. Maybe that's because the longer necked one ate all the food first.

[/ QUOTE ]

And do we know what that is called? Survival of the fittest. And who is responsible for that discovery? Charles Darwin himself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Survival of the fittest is not evilution. Evilution is the myth that one animal gradually changes into another animal.

BTW. Before Charls Darwin died he admitted that his theory of evilution has no scientific merit.

slugshooter

06-24-2005, 01:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]

How is pointing out someones glaring theological mistake an ignorant statement. Were talking about a thousand year difference here.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is not knowing exactly where incest is condemned a glaring theological mistake. All I said was wasn't there something in the bible condeming it. You kindly told me there was and said I didn't know the bible very well. That's that.

slugshooter

06-24-2005, 01:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Try not to put words in my mout here sluggo, I never said athiest never did anything, I asked what they did. There is a difference.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Aethiest are the first group to get on the "Kick the Christian while he's down" bandwagon. They put us down for any cidkup or misjudgment. Almost everytime when there is some religious zelot who goes anywhere on a t.v. drama and does anything wrong it's almost always a Christian man.

I was just wandering when was the last time an aethiest organization started a major university, when they opened a soup kitchen, which aethiest started AA or did something good to help the world when it wasnt' a show of thier wealth or power or tax write of?.

And just out of curriosity, how can someone who doesn't believe in God be offended by Him?. That's like me being offended by hearing about a unicorn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that not the same as suggesting that they don't contribute to society, the only thing you say they have done is "kick the Christian" when Christians do a dang fine job of doing it to their own. They don't need Atheists to drag them through the mud when a high profile preacher falls to temptation, every minister who the week before was quoting one of their sermons started preaching against the dangers of putting yourself in an elevated position, and how it wasn't "Christian."

And that little play on letters highlighted in red, I was always told that if you changed the lettering of a bad word, it was just as bad because you knew what you were saying. Couldn't you have at least said foul up or something. I don't pay too much heed to words of supposedly "Christian" people when they use un-Christian words.

johnf

06-24-2005, 04:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Try not to put words in my mout here sluggo, I never said athiest never did anything, I asked what they did. There is a difference.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Aethiest are the first group to get on the "Kick the Christian while he's down" bandwagon. They put us down for any cidkup or misjudgment. Almost everytime when there is some religious zelot who goes anywhere on a t.v. drama and does anything wrong it's almost always a Christian man.

I was just wandering when was the last time an aethiest organization started a major university, when they opened a soup kitchen, which aethiest started AA or did something good to help the world when it wasnt' a show of thier wealth or power or tax write of?.

And just out of curriosity, how can someone who doesn't believe in God be offended by Him?. That's like me being offended by hearing about a unicorn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that not the same as suggesting that they don't contribute to society, the only thing you say they have done is "kick the Christian" when Christians do a dang fine job of doing it to their own. They don't need Atheists to drag them through the mud when a high profile preacher falls to temptation, every minister who the week before was quoting one of their sermons started preaching against the dangers of putting yourself in an elevated position, and how it wasn't "Christian."

And that little play on letters highlighted in red, I was always told that if you changed the lettering of a bad word, it was just as bad because you knew what you were saying. Couldn't you have at least said foul up or something. I don't pay too much heed to words of supposedly "Christian" people when they use un-Christian words.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would asking you when the last time you took a leak be accusing you of not having a bladder? http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

It's an honest question and I stand by it.

By the way cidkup should have been hickup get your mind out of the gutter, that was a type-O. BTW what were you thinking? http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Ritzer

06-26-2005, 12:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Why look for skeletons when the "missing links" are walking around with their opposable thumbs.

[/ QUOTE ]

i only have a few questions and statements to make.
about this quote, um just explain to everybody on the board why humans magically stopped evolving from apes. why is there not an inbetween species from humans to apes? just wondering. and yes i do believe in god. and my question to everyone who doesnt on here is why not? i can see where your saying you dont believe hes real but lets take this for instance. if you start beliveing in god now, and he turns out to be false and made up. let me ask you, what did you lose by believing? is it too hard to believe? takes to much concentration? having to drag your sorry self out of bed on sunday instead of sleepng in gonna make you cry? i know by all means im not the best christian. ill admit to it. but you know what, im hoping when i dide, and i find that god is real, he can send me to heaven with the rest of my friends on here who believed. so yes i do believe in god and feel very sorry for the people who do not.

i got to go. im compressing enough matter in my basement to make my own new universe. Its gonna be a BIG BANG http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Jeramie

06-29-2005, 02:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I believe that the Bible is the true, inspired Word of God. I believe that all accounts in the Bible are true and actually happened. I believe that Jesus died and rose from the grave. And to take the one step further, I believe that He is coming back one day. How do I know that all of this is true........I take it by faith!

[/ QUOTE ]

Well said my brother....well said.....See you on the other side! http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Amen, Praise god, and Ill see you there!

SaskMan

06-29-2005, 03:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
having to drag your sorry self out of bed on sunday instead of sleepng in gonna make you cry

[/ QUOTE ]

There you go again judging!!! Who says I ever sleep in. let alone on sundays, maybe you're too ignorant to know that sunrise is the most peaceful time of the day, that is why I enjoy it every day, all seasons. Just because I don't drag my but to church on Sunday doesn't mean I'm too sorry to drag my but out of bed on Sunday. I likely have more work done in my garden and yard before you get out of bed than you do all day.....................ignorant statment from an obviously ignorant man!!

buckee

06-29-2005, 03:37 PM

OK guys, no need for the personal slams.
http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

johnf

06-29-2005, 04:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
having to drag your sorry self out of bed on sunday instead of sleepng in gonna make you cry

[/ QUOTE ]

There you go again judging!!! Who says I ever sleep in. let alone on sundays, maybe you're too ignorant to know that sunrise is the most peaceful time of the day, that is why I enjoy it every day, all seasons. Just because I don't drag my but to church on Sunday doesn't mean I'm too sorry to drag my but out of bed on Sunday. I likely have more work done in my garden and yard before you get out of bed than you do all day.....................ignorant statment from an obviously ignorant man!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Have to agree with Saskman on this one. I go to Church and Sunday school almost every Sunday. However, I get out of bed about 1 1/2 hours later on Sunday than on Saturday.

That statment was mis-informed at best.

MCH

06-29-2005, 05:07 PM

I'm a believer.

I was raised to be a believer. Although, I'd like to think that if I would have been raised in a non-believing household, that somehow I would have found the faith, I doubt it.

When I was a younger, I used to imagine what was here before God and it used to scare me to death. I knew the answer was nothing, but I couldn't fathom what "nothing" meant when even empty space is "something".

To this day, I still get chills when thinking about it.

To me, it would be easier to believe that the Big Bang was a random event. Life would be a lot simpler without having to worry about an afterlife.

Now, I'm not going to judge people by their views on religion. And I'm not going to try to convert you to my way of thinking. Actions define a man and from what I've seen from some of the non-believers in this thread, they might as well share my belief, because they live their lives similar to mine.

So express your views if you want, but no person in here is better than the other.

buckee

06-29-2005, 05:23 PM

I thought the drag yourself out of bed on Sunday comment, was rather silly myself. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

06-29-2005, 07:56 PM

carbon hunter,

How dare you try to post facts. SHAME ON YOU! http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

6sixpoint_nobrows

06-29-2005, 08:48 PM

slugshooter

06-29-2005, 09:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, I forgot that this is usually just an opinion forum. I won't let it happen again http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

You just have to remember that said opinion must conform to the popular 99% of opinions in this room. Otherwise, you're in for it. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

buckee

06-29-2005, 10:02 PM

well you left God out of the equation, and the fact that before the flood man lived to be hundreds of years old, and I imagine all of the info you posted came from an evelutionists point of view. I would be so bold as to call it fact. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

06-29-2005, 10:25 PM

We go from over 800 years to 65 because of a flood? You're too funny. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

spyderpancake

06-29-2005, 10:29 PM

ok, if evolution is true, how did the first cells and then animals make the transitions as they evolved. I am not sure how the time line goes, but how did a fish with gills change into a land animal with lungs? Or how did a land animal with legs change into a bird with wings, or vice versa? If these changes took place over long periods of time, did they just flop around until they finally evolved enough to fly? And if we all came from ape-like animals, then why do we still have apes? Why didn't they all evolve? Evolution takes just as much, if not more, faith as Creation does, neither of them has proof. I guess evilution is the only alternative if someone doesn't want to believe in God...

slugshooter

06-29-2005, 10:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I guess evolution is the only alternative if someone doesn't want to believe in God...

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe in both. I don't have any internal conflicts over it. All I know is that none of us know the complete definitive truth to the origins of the universe. I believe in the big bang, I believe that God caused it, that it was not some random event, that's not such a stretch is it? And many scientists who believe in evolution/big bang, also believe that something guided it (ie. God), scientists and evolutionists are not "great evil atheists" that the ultra-religious makes them out to be.

So there isn't "definitive proof" of evolution, even though there are stages of man/humans that have been discovered. I believe in many things in the bible, but I also believe that many things in the Old Testament are folklore and tribal legend in order to explain things in their time. 10000 years ago people aren't talking about order of the universe, and supernovas, and what revolves around what, and what evolved from what. All they knew is what they saw, how else are they going to explain it.

spyderpancake

06-29-2005, 10:53 PM

So you believe in God, but you don't believe anything he says, because the first verse in the Bible says that He created the heavens and the earth. And if you don't believe the Bible, how do you know anything about God? God reveals Himself thru His Word, so if it is false, or even partly false, then that makes Him a liar. God started the Big Bang-no offense, but i think you need to get on one side of the fence or another!

bexar_county89

06-29-2005, 11:12 PM

I have to agree with spyderpancake on this one 2, i've heard of the ppl who believe that God sorta created science or something, i don't believe it. God created man and animal he created the heavens and the earth, but sayin that God did evolution and the big bang thats like (to me) being a half-way christian. I don't mean to be rude or disrespectful but either go all the way or don't go at all.

*you've got to stand for somethin' or you'll fall for anything*

johnf

06-30-2005, 12:33 AM

There are a lot of scientist in the field of quantom physics that believe that with the direction, speed and shap of the universe and galaxies that the "big bang" could have happend as recent as 7 or 8 thousand years. I don't have a problem with God speaking everything in existance and the "Bang" happening. One could equate that with people believing the world was flat untill columbus.

I'm not saying that it is fact, just that it is plausible.

Also, I watched a show on Discovery last night about there being at least 6 different humaniod beings that all lived alongside modern humans. This completely debunks the evilution thing.

 They all lived at the same time. That's not evilution That is survival of the fitest which is in no way evilution. By the way the show made it clear that the modern man of that time was leaps and bounds ahead of all of the others and the intelligence levels were not even close.

slugshooter

06-30-2005, 01:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
So you believe in God, but you don't believe anything he says, because the first verse in the Bible says that He created the heavens and the earth. And if you don't believe the Bible, how do you know anything about God?

[/ QUOTE ]

Where did I ever say that? I believe in God, I believe he created this world and everything in it, I just believe he did it a little differently than you and most everyone else on here believe. And like I said before, I have no internal conflicts on the matter, simple as that. Besides, I don't really think God cares what we think about how this world came to be, belief in creationism is not the ticket to heaven, in fact, he probably hates how people bicker back and forth about it, because it pales in comparison to what is really important, this whole creation/evolution debate will continue long after we have left this world. And then we'll know the answer, but then it won't really matter then will it.

As far as the last statement, I know a heck of a lot more than you assume I do there junior. Just because I don't wear it on my sleeve doesn't mean I don't know it.

buckee

06-30-2005, 01:42 AM

I imagine when God said "Let there be", there was a big bang alright ...LOL http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

MCH

06-30-2005, 07:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
So you believe in God, but you don't believe anything he says, because the first verse in the Bible says that He created the heavens and the earth. And if you don't believe the Bible, how do you know anything about God? God reveals Himself thru His Word, so if it is false, or even partly false, then that makes Him a liar. God started the Big Bang-no offense, but i think you need to get on one side of the fence or another!

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right, God reveals himself through his word, but more often than not, his word is left for individual interpretation. To me, believing that the Lord created the Heavens and the Earth with a Big Bang, is not too far of a stretch.

Also, I was taught that noone knows what a day is to God. He created the earth in 6 days, but who's to say that 6 days to God isn't a hundred million years??

johnf

06-30-2005, 10:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Besides, I don't really think God cares what we think about how this world came to be, belief in creationism is not the ticket to heaven, in fact, he probably hates how people bicker back and forth about it, because it pales in comparison to what is really important, this whole creation/evolution debate will continue long after we have left this world. And then we'll know the answer, but then it won't really matter then will it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Once again one of those rare occations when sluggo and I completely agree on something. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

slugshooter

06-30-2005, 10:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Besides, I don't really think God cares what we think about how this world came to be, belief in creationism is not the ticket to heaven, in fact, he probably hates how people bicker back and forth about it, because it pales in comparison to what is really important, this whole creation/evolution debate will continue long after we have left this world. And then we'll know the answer, but then it won't really matter then will it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Once again one of those rare occations when sluggo and I completely agree on something. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

It is rare isn't it johnf, but it is a beautiful thing when it happens. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

johnf

06-30-2005, 12:49 PM

They actually lived in the same place at the same time at least that's what the program said. If they bread together wouldn't their be some sort of fossel record, after all they have fossles of all 6 species, but nothing in between. By the way they dated these primates at around 60,000 years ago, not millions.

As far as inter species breading, why would a modern man with an intelligence level close to ours minus the technology mate with an ape? That just doesnt' make sence to me.

If you equate survival of the fittest to evilution then that is like saying that the California Condor turned into a buzzard or a humming bird as far as that goes. After all they live in the same climate at the same time and the Condor is going extinct in the wild.

I think that sort of psueto science is grasping at straws at best.

[ QUOTE ]
I've studied this in a nationally recognized biology university and you've heard about it on the discovery chanel and with your church cronies, so I may be wrong

[/ QUOTE ]

So have I. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

BTW Many of my answers come from my sister who has 2 PHD's one in Micro Biology and the other Animal science. I'm guessing she probibly knows more than you about the subject even with your extensive resurch in biology 101.

buckee

06-30-2005, 01:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
(carbon dating doesn' lie)

[/ QUOTE ] .... If your professor told you that, then he was lieing. All of the scientific dating techniques are based on constance and constant assumptions in the natural world.
When we look at the bible between creation and the flood, we see that nothing was constant.
God created a perfect creation, then man fell in sin and all of creation fell with him. Everything that God had made perfect, was then corrupted and cursed. The flood was a supernatural event...nothing constant there either. Only since the flood, have things been constant to a point of being measurable.

Consider just a portion of an article written by Dr. John Morris from the Creation Research Institute. "Perhaps no concept in science is as misunderstood as "carbon dating." Almost everyone thinks carbon dating speaks of millions or billions of years. But, carbon dating can't be used to date either rocks or fossils. It is only useful for once-living things which still contain carbon, like flesh or bone or wood. Rocks and fossils, consisting only of inorganic minerals, cannot be dated by this scheme. Carbon normally occurs as Carbon-12, but radioactive Carbon-14 may sometimes be formed in the outer atmosphere as Nitrogen-14 undergoes cosmic ray bombardment. The resulting C-14 is unstable and decays back to N-14 with a measured half-life of approximately 5,730 years. Thus the ratio of stable C-12 to unstable C-14, which is known in today's open environment, changes over time in an isolated specimen. Consider the dating of a piece of wood. As long as the tree lives, it absorbs carbon from the atmosphere in the form of carbon dioxide, both C-12 and C-14. Once the tree dies, it ceases to take in new carbon, and any C-14 present begins to decay. The changing ratio of C-12 to C-14 indicates the length of time since the tree stopped absorbing carbon, i.e., the time of its death. ...in practise, no one trusts it (carbon dating) beyond about 3,000 or 4,000 years, and then only if it can be checked by some historical means. ...Thus carbon dating says nothing at all about millions of years, and often lacks accuracy even with historical specimens..." (Doesn't Carbon Dating Prove the Earth Is Old? by John D. Morris, Ph.D., Institute for Creation Research, PO Box 2667, El Cajon, CA 92021Voice: (619) 448-0900 FAX: (619) 448-3469 "Vital Articles on Science/Creation" July 1998 Copyright © 1998 All Rights Reserved).

If God created the heavens and the earth (which I believe, by faith, to be true), how could any dating method measure anything, beyond creation, or for that matter, beyond the flood, since it was not a natural even, but a supernatural event. If God created the heavens and the earth, then he also created the layers of the earth. New sediments and layers have been formed since of course, but how can one measure something that was created ..."POOF". And how can one measure these supernatural changes to the earth, when their measuring instruments are based on the natural constants??

Food for thought I challenge you to read this and come to your own conclusions.
http://www.wels.net/sab/qa/earth-evol-02.html

Why is creation vs. evolution is important to Christians?

What do you think it means to be Christian?

If evolution were true, what might happen to Christianity?

Creation vs evolution is important to Christians because creation is not an isolated teaching of Scripture located in just a couple chapters of Genesis. Throughout Scripture God is presented as the one who created all things miraculously so that what is seen now did not come about by eons of development from other visible things (Hebrews 11:3). Our Savior, the Son of God, is presented as the miraculous creator of all things (John 1:1-4). Evolution teaches a chance development of progression from simple to complex life forms in which human beings are not a special breed apart, but just the most advanced form of animal life. Creation teaches a planned creation that was perfect and complete from the beginning in which human beings were created as the crown of God's creation, in his very image.

Creation and evolution can only be harmonized by those who are willing to do violence to many portions of Scripture for the sake of seeming to be "in tune" with scientific thought. To deny creation as Scripture holds it before us, is not just to deny Genesis chapters 1 and 2, but really would place in doubt everything written between Genesis 1 and Revelation 22.

All of this really also answers your third question. Evolution is really nothing more than proud sinful creature's arrogant attempt to erase his responsibility to his Creator. To give in to that arrogance destroys the beating heart of Christianity, which proclaims that my trust is in my Creator who by his birth became my Brother, Jesus Christ, so that he could rescue me from my sinful arrogance by living, dying and rising again for me.

You also asked what it means to be a Christian. To be a Christian means to be a sinner who knows that I deserve eternal ****, and yet the eternal Son of God became my Brother so that through his life, death and bodily resurrection I might be forgiven of every sin and credited with the perfect righteousness that he lived. To be a Christians means that because of what Jesus has done, I know that I will live (body and soul) with the Triune God forever in the glory of his presence. To be a Christian means that while we wait for heaven, we freely offer our lives in willing service to our God by serving in love all those he puts around us. This we do, not because it makes God love us, but because we have been so dearly loved in his Son.

II Peter 3:3-9 says, "Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgement and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. THE LORD IS not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is long suffering to us-ward, NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH, BUT THAT ALL SHOULD COME TO REPENTANCE."

Yes, it's true that the bible doesn't give us the answers to all the mysteries of the universe, but neither does science. The bible does however gives us everything we need to know about ourselves and our fallen relationship with our creator. I would much rather build on that, than build on a theory of man-made faith and assumptions, such as evolution

KSNimrod

06-30-2005, 03:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I won't accept any of the things you say about so called creation,

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahh, there's that "scientific objectiveness" one can expect from radicals. Almost as closed minded as those "religious wackos".

johnf

06-30-2005, 04:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
NUMBER 1 john, you are ignorant for assuming I've taken one biology course, so stop in your belittling of my knowlege. I may not have the expertise of your sister, but I surely have more than you.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right, with those "theories" it was presuptious to think you have taken biology.

Just because I don't agree with your theory doesn't mean I don't have a greater knowledge base than you.

The theory of evolution is just that, a theory. By the way My sisters Doctoral disertation was on animal reproduction. Her findings led her to conclusion that animals that were alike were more were 20 some times more likely to bread than those with differences. She noted different species and breads of dogs, cats, bovine, equestrien, chickens and insects would seek out thier own strain or breed in a confined area where they were the minority to bread.

So what is your experience in evilutionary research?

MCH

06-30-2005, 05:02 PM

I can end this debate right now.

My knowledge base is bigger than everyone's....http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I'm a father of a two year old. I know more stuff than any sane man should know...http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

buckee

06-30-2005, 06:15 PM

What about all those pre-human bones?

A Biblical explaination of pre-human or human-like bones can be found with the Nephilim, a mixed human creature mentioned in the Bible, however many bone discoveries have peen proven to have non-human origins.

NEBRASKA MAN: This amazing discovery was found to be nothing more than a pig's tooth.

LUCY: The remains of Lucy have been reclassified as an extinct ape.

PILTDOWN MAN: These bones were proven to be a deliberate hoax. A human skull was attached to an ape jaw and weatherd to look old.

RAMAPITHECUS: These bones were found to be from an orangutan.

JAVA MAN: These bones were found to be the remains of an ape and human mixed together. Its discoverer later rejected his find.

PEKING MAN: Again, a mixup of human and ape bones. They were found together because the humans were eating the brains from the ape.

Don't all 'real scientists' believe in evolution?

The following is a list of scientists of the past and present who believed in creation:

Isaac Newton (dynamics, calculus)

Lewis Pasteur (bacteriology, pasteurization, biogenesis Law)

Blaise Pascal (barometer, hydrostatics, Pascal's Law)

Michael Faraday (Farad, electric generator)

Lord Kelvin (thermodynamics, energetics, Kelvin Scale)

Leonardo DaVinci (hydraulics, engineer, artist)

Samuel Morse (telegraph, Morse Code)

Gregor Mendel (genetics, Mendel's Law)

George Washington Carver (inventor)

Kurt Wise, Ph.D. (Harvard paleontology)

D.B. Gower, Ph.D. (biochemistry, University of London)

John Ambros Fleming (electronics, physics, Fleming Valve)

..............

Are there scientists alive today who accept the biblical account of creation?
Note: Individuals on this list must possess a doctorate in a science-related field.

Dr Paul Ackerman, Psychologist
Dr E. Theo Agard, Medical Physics
Dr James Allan, Geneticist
Dr Steve Austin, Geologist
Dr S.E. Aw, Biochemist
Dr Thomas Barnes, Physicist
Dr Don Batten, Plant physiologist, tropical fruit expert
Dr John Baumgardner, Electrical Engineering, Space Physicist, Geophysicist, expert in supercomputer modeling of plate tectonics
Dr Jerry Bergman, Psychologist
Dr Kimberly Berrine, Microbiology & Immunology
Prof. Vladimir Betina, Microbiology, Biochemistry & Biology
Dr Raymond G. Bohlin, Biologist
Dr Andrew Bosanquet, Biology, Microbiology
Edward A. Boudreaux, Theoretical Chemistry
Dr David R. Boylan, Chemical Engineer
Prof. Linn E. Carothers, Associate Professor of Statistics
Dr David Catchpoole, Plant Physiologist (read his testimony)
Prof. Sung-Do Cha, Physics
Dr Eugene F. Chaffin, Professor of Physics
Dr Choong-Kuk Chang, Genetic Engineering
Prof. Jeun-Sik Chang, Aeronautical Engineering
Dr Donald Chittick, Physical Chemist
Prof. Chung-Il Cho, Biology Education
Dr John M. Cimbala, Mechanical Engineering
Dr Harold Coffin, Palaeontologist
Dr Bob Compton, DVM
Dr Ken Cumming, Biologist
Dr Jack W. Cuozzo, Dentist
Dr William M. Curtis III, Th.D., Th.M., M.S., Aeronautics & Nuclear Physics
Dr Malcolm Cutchins, Aerospace Engineering
Dr Lionel Dahmer, Analytical Chemist
Dr Raymond V. Damadian, M.D., Pioneer of magnetic resonance imaging
Dr Chris Darnbrough, Biochemist
Dr Nancy M. Darrall, Botany
Dr Bryan Dawson, Mathematics
Dr Douglas Dean, Biological Chemistry
Prof. Stephen W. Deckard, Assistant Professor of Education
Dr David A. DeWitt, Biology, Biochemistry, Neuroscience
Dr Don DeYoung, Astronomy, atmospheric physics, M.Div
Dr Geoff Downes, Creationist Plant Physiologist
Dr Ted Driggers, Operations research
Dr André Eggen, Geneticist
Prof. Dennis L. Englin, Professor of Geophysics
Prof. Danny Faulkner, Astronomy
Prof. Carl B. Fliermans, Professor of Biology
Prof. Dwain L. Ford, Organic Chemistry
Prof. Robert H. Franks, Associate Professor of Biology
Dr Alan Galbraith, Watershed Science
Dr Paul Giem, Medical Research
Dr Maciej Giertych, Geneticist
Dr Duane Gish, Biochemist
Dr Werner Gitt, Information Scientist
Dr Dianne Grocott, Psychiatrist
Dr Stephen Grocott, Industrial Chemist
Dr Donald Hamann, Food Scientist
Dr Barry Harker, Philosopher
Dr Charles W. Harrison, Applied Physicist, Electromagnetics
Dr John Hartnett, Physicist and Cosmologist
Dr George Hawke, Environmental Scientist
Dr Margaret Helder, Science Editor, Botanist
Dr Harold R. Henry, Engineer
Dr Jonathan Henry, Astronomy
Dr Joseph Henson, Entomologist
Dr Robert A. Herrmann, Professor of Mathematics, US Naval Academy
Dr Andrew Hodge, Head of the Cardiothoracic Surgical Service
Dr Kelly Hollowell, Molecular and Cellular Pharmacologist
Dr Ed Holroyd, III, Atmospheric Science
Dr Bob Hosken, Biochemistry
Dr Neil Huber, Physical Anthropologist
Dr Russell Humphreys, Physicist
Dr James A. Huggins, Professor and Chair, Department of Biology
George T. Javor, Biochemistry
Dr Pierre Jerlström, Creationist Molecular Biologist
Dr Arthur Jones, Biology
Dr Jonathan W. Jones, Plastic Surgeon
Dr Raymond Jones, Agricultural Scientist
Prof. Leonid Korochkin, Molecular Biology
Dr Valery Karpounin, Mathematical Sciences, Logics, Formal Logics
Dr Dean Kenyon, Biologist
Prof. Gi-Tai Kim, Biology
Prof. Harriet Kim, Biochemistry
Prof. Jong-Bai Kim, Biochemistry
Prof. Jung-Han Kim, Biochemistry
Prof. Jung-Wook Kim, Environmental Science
Prof. Kyoung-Rai Kim, Analytical Chemistry
Prof. Kyoung-Tai Kim, Genetic Engineering
Prof. Young-Gil Kim, Materials Science
Prof. Young In Kim, Engineering
Dr John W. Klotz, Biologist
Dr Vladimir F. Kondalenko, Cytology/Cell Pathology
Dr Leonid Korochkin, M.D., Genetics, Molecular Biology, Neurobiology
Dr John K.G. Kramer, Biochemistry
Prof. Jin-Hyouk Kwon, Physics
Prof. Myung-Sang Kwon, Immunology
Prof. John Lennox, Mathematics
Dr John Leslie, Biochemist
Prof. Lane P. Lester, Biologist, Genetics
Dr Jason Lisle, Astrophysicist
Dr Alan Love, Chemist
Dr Ian Macreadie, molecular biologist and microbiologist:
Dr John Marcus, Molecular Biologist
Dr George Marshall, Eye Disease Researcher
Dr Ralph Matthews, Radiation Chemist
Dr John McEwan, Chemist
Prof. Andy McIntosh, Combustion theory, aerodynamics
Dr David Menton, Anatomist
Dr Angela Meyer, Creationist Plant Physiologist
Dr John Meyer , Physiologist
Dr John N. Moore, Science Educator
Dr John W. Moreland, Mechanical engineer and Dentist
Dr Henry M. Morris, Hydrologist
Dr John D. Morris, Geologist
Dr Len Morris, Physiologist
Dr Graeme Mortimer, Geologist
Prof. Hee-Choon No, Nuclear Engineering
Dr Eric Norman, Biomedical researcher
Dr David Oderberg, Philosopher
Prof. John Oller, Linguistics
Prof. Chris D. Osborne, Assistant Professor of Biology
Dr John Osgood, Medical Practitioner
Dr Charles Pallaghy, Botanist
Dr Gary E. Parker, Biologist, Cognate in Geology (Paleontology)
Dr David Pennington, Plastic Surgeon
Prof. Richard Porter
Dr John Rankin, Cosmologist
Dr A.S. Reece, M.D.
Prof. J. Rendle-Short, Pediatrics
Dr Jung-Goo Roe, Biology
Dr David Rosevear, Chemist
Dr Ariel A. Roth, Biology
Dr Jonathan D. Sarfati, Physical chemist / spectroscopist
Dr Joachim Scheven Palaeontologist:
Dr Ian Scott, Educator
Dr Saami Shaibani, Forensic physicist
Dr Young-Gi Shim, Chemistry
Prof. Hyun-Kil Shin, Food Science
Dr Mikhail Shulgin, Physics
Dr Emil Silvestru, Geologist/karstologist
Dr Roger Simpson, Engineer
Dr Harold Slusher, Geophysicist
Dr E. Norbert Smith, Zoologist
Dr Andrew Snelling , Geologist
Prof. Man-Suk Song, Computer Science
Dr Timothy G. Standish, Biology
Prof. James Stark , Assistant Professor of Science Education
Prof. Brian Stone, Engineer
Dr Esther Su, Biochemistry
Dr Charles Taylor, Linguistics
Dr Ker C. Thomson, Geophysics
Dr Michael Todhunter, Forest Genetics
Dr Lyudmila Tonkonog, Chemistry/Biochemistry
Dr Royal Truman, Organic Chemist:
Dr Larry Vardiman, Atmospheric Science
Prof. Walter Veith, Zoologist
Dr Joachim Vetter, Biologist
Dr Tas Walker, Mechanical Engineer and Geologist
Dr Jeremy Walter, Mechanical Engineer
Dr Keith Wanser, Physicist
Dr Noel Weeks, Ancient Historian (also has B.Sc. in Zoology)
Dr A.J. Monty White, Chemistry/Gas Kinetics
Dr John Whitmore, Geologist/Paleontologist
Dr Carl Wieland, Medical doctor
Dr Lara Wieland, Medical doctor
Dr Clifford Wilson, Psycholinguist and archaeologist
Dr Kurt Wise, Palaeontologist
Dr Bryant Wood, Creationist Archaeologist
Prof. Seoung-Hoon Yang, Physics
Dr Thomas (Tong Y.) Yi, Ph.D., Creationist Aerospace & Mechanical Engineering
Dr Ick-Dong Yoo, Genetics
Dr Sung-Hee Yoon, Biology
Dr Patrick Young, Chemist and Materials Scientist
Prof. Keun Bae Yu, Geography
Dr Henry Zuill, Biology

fisherguy

06-30-2005, 06:49 PM

So should i post a list of christians who believe in evolution?

buckee

06-30-2005, 07:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So should i post a list of christians who believe in evolution?

[/ QUOTE ]
Sure if it makes you feel better, but how about making it a list of scientists who believe in both http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

buckee

06-30-2005, 07:14 PM

I believe the bible has the FACTS already written. So God didn't give us all the details...so what.

The entire Bible was written over a 1500 year span.

The Bible contains 66 books written by over 40 different authors, each inspired to write by the Holy Spirit. The authors were from all walks of life: shepherds, farmers, tent-makers, physicians, fishermen, priests, philosophers and kings. Despite these differences in occupation and the span of years it took to write it, the Bible is an extremely cohesive and unified book.

The Bible has been translated into over 1,200 languages

The Bible was the first book ever printed. In 1454, Johannes Gutenberg invented the "type mold" print press and began to print the Bible. Life Magazine called this the single most important event of the second millennium.

The book of Isaiah is constructed much like the entire Bible.
**Bible: 66 books.
**Isaiah: 66 chapters.

**Bible: First 39 books mainly concern Isreal.
**Isaiah: First 39 chapters mainly concern Isreal.

**Bible: Last 27 books concern the life and coming of Jesus Christ.
**Isaiah: Last 27 chapters concern the life and coming of Jesus Christ.

The first ever vocal radio broadcast on December 24, 1906
consisted of a reading from Luke chapter two.

We take so much for granted in todays world. Many of us look at the bible as just another book. Study it's history and you will see that is is much more than "just a book". It is the Word of God, and Jesus is the Living Word of God (the word, made flesh)

06-30-2005, 07:25 PM

fisherguy,

No you don't have too. Some try the hardest to prove they think they are right. Humans need something to grasp on to even if it's "wishful thinking."

buckee

06-30-2005, 07:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
fisherguy,

No you don't have too. The weak ones try the hardest to prove they think they are right. Humans need something to grasp on to even if it's "wishful thinking."

[/ QUOTE ]

OH you silly puppy...LOL http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Yes, I am weak, and He is strong.
And I don't waste my time on here for my own benefit.
Would it be better or more fitting if I said "I wash my hands of you"? http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
God sure has a lot more patience than I do ...whew

06-30-2005, 07:45 PM

I tried rewording (hence 7:33 vs your 7:40), but the Michael Crook post got the best of me! You are a mod, so congrats. Now go cut and paste some more in wonderland......

buckee

06-30-2005, 08:17 PM

That's OK dg, I don't take any personal offence to anything you say.

fisherguy

06-30-2005, 08:23 PM

i just read that list...buckee you should have proof read...there is a philosopher in it. lol Ok, i just had to laugh at that one...done with this thread now..nobody's mind is going to be changed, and most people aren't even going to listen to others arguments anymore. (as evident by the way this thread has turned personal)

06-30-2005, 08:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
That's OK dg, I don't take any personal offence to anything you say.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good!

preacherman

06-30-2005, 10:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
nobody's mind is going to be changed, and most people aren't even going to listen to others arguments anymore. (as evident by the way this thread has turned personal)

[/ QUOTE ]

Strangely enough, I would have to agree with you!

Strut_Buster

06-30-2005, 10:39 PM

Evolution is fact. I'm christian and can't deny this. You said that those Hominoids were merely apes.... duh.. what do you thing you are lol. What about all those books in the bible that the chatholic church threw out centuries ago. Some had to do about dragons and weird stuff like that. I'm christan, I believe there is some god.

What about that big flood.... there's no possible way that there was a flood that coverd the earth, and there's no geological evidence supporting it. The bible is not absolute fact. Basicaly is a series of metaphors for man to chew and decide how to live their life.

horst

06-30-2005, 11:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
BTW Many of my answers come from my sister who has 2 PHD's one in Micro Biology and the other Animal science. I'm guessing she probibly knows more than you about the subject even with your extensive resurch in biology 101.

[/ QUOTE ]

John, your sister may have a degree but Im getting the feeling your twisting anything around shes told you just for the sake of argument, or maybe just because your to closed minded to consider anyone elses ideas could be correct.

Theres evidence that supports evolution everywhere you look.Theres not much evidence around that supports the bible other then man made writings and man made religous artifacts.There should be some trace of these things if they can find dinosaur bones that date back to before Christ.Why is it everyone but you should have to come up with evidence to support thier theories but when they do you can dismiss them that easily?

spyderpancake

06-30-2005, 11:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Evolution is fact. I'm christian and can't deny this. You said that those Hominoids were merely apes.... duh.. what do you thing you are lol. What about all those books in the bible that the chatholic church threw out centuries ago. Some had to do about dragons and weird stuff like that. I'm christan, I believe there is some god.

What about that big flood.... there's no possible way that there was a flood that coverd the earth, and there's no geological evidence supporting it. The bible is not absolute fact. Basicaly is a series of metaphors for man to chew and decide how to live their life.

[/ QUOTE ]

If there was no Flood, then why are there seashells all over the place, even on mountaintops? And that would be one reason there are so many fossils-rapid covering of carcasses and then extreme pressure by water on top would form them. How do you think those dinosaur fossils were formed. The skeletons laid on the ground until a layer of soil came over it and fossilized it?

fisherguy

06-30-2005, 11:46 PM

Seas have moked as the landscape and climate have shifted. THere is not enough water to cover all the land at one time.

horst

07-01-2005, 12:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If there was no Flood, then why are there seashells all over the place, even on mountaintops?

[/ QUOTE ]

Then there was the ice age when all the glaciers were moving around the continent, picking things up and depositing them somewhere else, gouging out lakes and things.Its the same reason you can find rocks around here that have no geological reason to be here.

And a lotta the seashells found in strange places are actually from freshwater animals, clams, snails, things like that.Theres a lotta places even on top of mountains and things that held water at one point in time and dont now.The town i live in was at one point in time a huge lake but its been broken down into many smaller bodies of water and a lotta those have since been tiled out.Theres lots of ways shells could wind up somewhere without the entire earth neccassarily flooding out to get them there

spyderpancake

07-02-2005, 06:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
? And that would be one reason there are so many fossils-rapid covering of carcasses and then extreme pressure by water on top would form them. How do you think those dinosaur fossils were formed. The skeletons laid on the ground until a layer of soil came over it and fossilized it?

[/ QUOTE ]
what about that point? how else would we have so many well-preserved fossils? I mean, how how else would eggs be preserved unless there was some MAJOR geological event that covered them in mud and then there was enough pressure the fossilize them?

johnf

07-04-2005, 12:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
BTW Many of my answers come from my sister who has 2 PHD's one in Micro Biology and the other Animal science. I'm guessing she probibly knows more than you about the subject even with your extensive resurch in biology 101.

[/ QUOTE ]

John, your sister may have a degree but Im getting the feeling your twisting anything around shes told you just for the sake of argument, or maybe just because your to closed minded to consider anyone elses ideas could be correct.

Theres evidence that supports evolution everywhere you look.Theres not much evidence around that supports the bible other then man made writings and man made religous artifacts.There should be some trace of these things if they can find dinosaur bones that date back to before Christ.Why is it everyone but you should have to come up with evidence to support thier theories but when they do you can dismiss them that easily?

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. I have seen nothing that can substantively support evilution. The fact that there are species that no longer exist doesn't prove anything except that they are extinct.

I didn't realize that the results of a doctoral dissertation didn't count as proof. Maybe I should ask an 8th grade science teacher with a bachelors degree, I'm sure they would know the real answer.

horst

07-04-2005, 05:44 PM

So wheres all your evidence supporting the bible?There should be arks, grails, stone tablets, that sorta thing.Everything thats been documented was documented by man, and its been changed over the years every time its been re written.The various religions we have today cant even agree on what a lot of it really means.Everyones got thier own interpratation of it.

So again I gotta ask, why should everyone but you have to come up with evidence supporting thier claims?

fisherguy

07-04-2005, 06:00 PM

John, having a doctorate doesn't automatically give you credibility. THere are people with PHD's who have done dissertations on things such as alien's being the founders of earth, and homosexuality being genetic and normal. Now just because they have a PHD, and did a dissertation on it, do you agree with it, or give it credibility...i am guessing not.

buckee

07-04-2005, 06:00 PM

I posted evidents that supports the bible, but no-one sees it as evidents. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Here's another link worth reading
Jews for Jesus (http://www.jewsforjesus.org/answers/bible/truth)

Hillbilly

07-04-2005, 06:18 PM

All you people need to do is believe in what you believe in. There's so many beliefs out there in the world. People fight and die over religion all the time overseas. Now we are fighting over, if there ever was a Christ. I believe there was and that's my belief. If anyone wants to question it go right ahead. I know there is a Christ because of all the Miracles that has happened to my family and me. I have ahd open heart operation when i was only 3. The doctors told my mother I wouldn't see my 6th birthday. I am now 21. Christ kept me alive because he has a plan for me. I know he does. I don't go to church at all, and I haven't picked a bible up for a long time. That doesn't mean I don't believe in God and Jesus because I do. Jesus loves me and I love Jesus.

This is what I believe in. You do not need to question someone's faith.

guess

07-04-2005, 06:26 PM

here's the deal! If it were fiction and you lived your whole life by the Bibles rules what have you lost? If it is non -fiction and you choose to ignore it! WHAT HAVE you lost? lets just say I've burned toast that is in better shape than you will be!
personally I don't know how any one can look at a child and not believe in God!
there is the living miracle right there!
just my 2cents.

guess

07-04-2005, 06:33 PM

one more thing! reguardless of wether or not everything in the Bilbe is accurate doesn't matter much! what does matter is one phrase!
Christ said" who soever believes in me shall not parish but have ever lasting life"!
that is the only part you have to get right ! just believing! Like I said if you believe and are wrong you've lost nothing!

Strut_Buster

07-04-2005, 10:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Evolution is fact. I'm christian and can't deny this. You said that those Hominoids were merely apes.... duh.. what do you thing you are lol. What about all those books in the bible that the chatholic church threw out centuries ago. Some had to do about dragons and weird stuff like that. I'm christan, I believe there is some god.

What about that big flood.... there's no possible way that there was a flood that coverd the earth, and there's no geological evidence supporting it. The bible is not absolute fact. Basicaly is a series of metaphors for man to chew and decide how to live their life.

[/ QUOTE ]

If there was no Flood, then why are there seashells all over the place, even on mountaintops? And that would be one reason there are so many fossils-rapid covering of carcasses and then extreme pressure by water on top would form them. How do you think those dinosaur fossils were formed. The skeletons laid on the ground until a layer of soil came over it and fossilized it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm... this is one of the more ignorant things I've read in awhile. You say there was a big flood that coverd the earth, beacause there are seashells found all over the world. Well heres a geology lesson for you. Right underneath your feet. Your sitting on a Giant, huge, massive, rock. techtonic plate as they call them in accretided universities. and plates shift. Not fast like tommorow.. but maybe in like millions of tommorows all combined to form years. The sea shell that is sitting on the bottom of the sea dead.. is being moved and pushed little by little. It then over millions of years is finaly pushed into a growing landmass like a continent. Or, and in the desert southwest's case. the plates have bumped together raiseing the land out of the ocean, forming moutains. I suppose you don't know there is a subduction zone right off the coast of california where the North American and Pacific plate meet together. the pacific is getting smaller, while on the other end of our nation.. the Atlantic is growing. Dinosaur Fossils were formed under perfect conditions. Dinosaurs that died and their bones were lucky enough to be coverd by a Pre-Historic river, or a slideing landmass. If there was a flood of that magnitude, dinosaur bones would be in our backyards and we would be digging them up every day. The dinosaurs were killed by a Asteriod. Its Crater can be found of the Yucatan Peninsula. I could write a paper on this stuff. I should. But I won't. The Knowledge is there for people to find but many don't want to pull their heads out of the sand and look arround at all the Science and hard proof that you as americans are so lucky to posess. As i Said. I Believe tehre is a god, and jesus. But the Bible was written by the sinful man. Who may not have written gods word exactly as he would have liked. And many of the stoires are to be chewed and thought out as a way for man to live.

Theres manythings I feel science can't explain. I could list a few but i won't

py_archer

07-04-2005, 10:44 PM

Anyone who doesn't believe in a supreme being needs to spend more time in the outdoors. People that know I hunt sometimes ask me how I can shoot "such a lovely creature?". It says in the bible that to kill another human being is a sin. Why? Because man has a soul that God didn't give the other animals. Yes I said "the other animals". Let me explain. Not too long after scientist successfully fertilized a human embryo with the semen from an ape the Vatican changed their stance on the theory of evolution, essentialy accepting it. The document itself is in latin. Do a search (Pope theory of evolution) and you can see it for yourself. I agree with it.
Here is my understanding of what the Pope said;
[when man evolved enough to begin to worship his creater that was when God gave man a soul and that, it was Gods way that man evolve from dust]
I have decided that the purpose in life is children and the meaning of life is God sharing his love for us with the gift of life on Earth.

buckee

07-04-2005, 11:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Hmm... this is one of the more ignorant things I've read in awhile. You say there was a big flood that covered the earth, because there are seashells found all over the world. Well heres a geology lesson for you. Right underneath your feet. Your sitting on a Giant, huge, massive, rock. techtonic plate as they call them in accretided universities. and plates shift. Not fast like tommorow.. but maybe in like millions of tommorows all combined to form years. The sea shell that is sitting on the bottom of the sea dead.. is being moved and pushed little by little. It then over millions of years is finaly pushed into a growing landmass like a continent. Or, and in the desert southwest's case. the plates have bumped together raiseing the land out of the ocean, forming moutains. I suppose you don't know there is a subduction zone right off the coast of california where the North American and Pacific plate meet together. the pacific is getting smaller, while on the other end of our nation.. the Atlantic is growing. Dinosaur Fossils were formed under perfect conditions. Dinosaurs that died and their bones were lucky enough to be coverd by a Pre-Historic river, or a slideing landmass. If there was a flood of that magnitude, dinosaur bones would be in our backyards and we would be digging them up every day. The dinosaurs were killed by a Asteriod. Its Crater can be found of the Yucatan Peninsula. I could write a paper on this stuff. I should. But I won't. The Knowledge is there for people to find but many don't want to pull their heads out of the sand and look arround at all the Science and hard proof that you as americans are so lucky to posess. As i Said. I Believe tehre is a god, and jesus. But the Bible was written by the sinful man. Who may not have written gods word exactly as he would have liked. And many of the stoires are to be chewed and thought out as a way for man to live.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry bud, but all those things could have happened during the flood. The bible says the water came up from the earth as well as down from the heavens. Therefore there had to be a catastrophic event that happened at that time, not just a simple rainfall. The earth would have had to open up to release all that water. It didn't necessarily have to happen over millions of years. It could have just happened when God commanded it to happen, including the asteroid hitting the earth.
There have been so many mass dinosaur digs found, where the creatures still have fossilized food in their mouths. Animals don't die with food in there mouths during an ice-age.

Strut_Buster

07-04-2005, 11:52 PM

http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Yep... uhhhuh Wheres the proof in the rock then. There would be a distinct layer of sediment from the flood. There's one for the Massive asteroid that struck the Yucatan, one for a massive Culdrea Volcano that blew in Africa, and one from polution that humans have caused over time. No flood. No evidence except a peice of paper with words on it.

So what if they had food in their mouth. When that asteroid struck.. most of north and south america was engulfed in flames. And Ash coverd the earth in over a foot of sediment and the sun was choked out for decades. Dinosaurs close enough to the action were carrying out their daily routein. A T-rex coulda had a mouth full of meat and was evaporated down to the bones and cover in ash. Food in their mouth dosen't mean much... if they were drown in a flood... what makes you think they were just wollowing arround eating as 100 feet of water poured from the heavens. being and animal and thir instincts would have them scared shitless and they would be running for life. But then again... maybe Noah put 2 of every species on a boat and floated it out and they were the lucky 2. And they don't die with food in their mouth. the Ice age was a very active time in geological history. I'm shure whatever scientists found the mamouth or whatever have an explination of how the animal died... and i'm 100 percent that the great flood isn't it. Landside... maybe the animal was chewing cud and it died.. i believe if i'm not wrong elephants do that. It coulda Chokled!

wtnhunt

07-05-2005, 06:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
reguardless of wether or not everything in the Bilbe is accurate doesn't matter much! what does matter is one phrase!
Christ said" who soever believes in me shall not parish but have ever lasting life"!
that is the only part you have to get right ! just believing! Like I said if you believe and are wrong you've lost nothing!

[/ QUOTE ]

What matters to me.

On the idea of evolution, someone else said it, but for those who think we evolved from apes, why is it that there has been no further evolution as far back as modern man goes? Not talking adaptation, but actually evolving.

Strut_Buster

07-05-2005, 09:11 PM

e-z. Modern man (homo sapines sapines) showed up a mere 30, 000 years ago. We have the ability to adapt the environment, and use reason and create solutions to problems due to our larger brain cavities and therefore larger brains. 1.5-.7 (i think) Homo Sapines, our first form of humans, showed up. Their brains were smaller but they looked like us and had the ability to make simple tools like spears. They also spread out over the world leading to a diverse species. Then Homo Erectus, then Homo Habilis and so on.

but 30,000 years is little time for a species to evolve. I suppose we are evolveing our brains and our bodys through the use of technology. I dunno. Couldjn't tell ya where we are goin but i kno where we came from.

buckee

07-05-2005, 09:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
e-z. Modern man (homo sapines sapines) showed up a mere 30, 000 years ago. We have the ability to adapt the environment, and use reason and create solutions to problems due to our larger brain cavities and therefore larger brains. 1.5-.7 (i think) Homo Sapines, our first form of humans, showed up. Their brains were smaller but they looked like us and had the ability to make simple tools like spears. They also spread out over the world leading to a diverse species. Then Homo Erectus, then Homo Habilis and so on.

but 30,000 years is little time for a species to evolve. I suppose we are evolveing our brains and our bodys through the use of technology. I dunno. Couldjn't tell ya where we are goin but i kno where we came from.

[/ QUOTE ]
LMBO ..I'm glad yur so sure of yourself, because science calls it a theory, not fact. I took all that stuff in school to, but it doesn't make it true. Much of the stuff, I learned in school about evolution has since been disproven or debunked as fakes. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Strut_Buster

07-05-2005, 10:08 PM

Like what. How Long has it been since you were in highschool? I have a love for science and history. Never got less than an A in any of those classes. Science seems to have a more valid explination that the bible does for creation or whatever. Ok ok.. evolution is a theory.. but at least it holds water. I read that stuff you posted earlier, I think you should do some searching to scientific sites rather than religous bias ones. If I'm correct Java Man was called by a creationist a large gibbon. Except Java Mans Skull is too big and its brain cavity is too large for that on an ape. Further research went on in the 90's and they reclassified Java Man as a Homo Erectus. It was also a Bipedal hominoid because of the long leg bone found at the site, a chacteristic of all hominoids. Do a yahoo search.. see for yourself the comparisons.

bbass300

07-05-2005, 11:18 PM

you tha man preacherman

py_archer

07-06-2005, 12:04 AM

To those of you that instant message me about this topic of evolution, I offer this.

web page (http://websearch.cs.com/wm/boomframe.jsp?query=pope+theory+of+evolution&page= 1&offset=1&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26re questId%3D32e9dbe4a92d4fa3%26clickedItemRank%3D5%2 6userQuery%3Dpope%2Btheory%2Bof%2Bevolution%26clic kedItemURN%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.law.umkc.edu%2 52Ffaculty%252Fprojects%252Fftrials%252Fconlaw%252 Fvaticanview.html%26invocationType%3D-%26fromPage%3DWMTRoll%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_u rl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.law.umkc.edu%2Ffaculty%2Fproje cts%2Fftrials%2Fconlaw%2Fvaticanview.html)

Strut_Buster

07-06-2005, 12:26 AM

Interesting stuff they Py thanks for shareing.

preacherman

07-06-2005, 10:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
you tha man preacherman

[/ QUOTE ]

thank you very much, but what for? http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

preacherman

07-06-2005, 10:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Evolution is fact. I'm christian and can't deny this. I am Christan, I believe there is some god.

The bible is not absolute fact. Basicaly is a series of metaphors for man to chew and decide how to live their life.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now, without a doubt, this has to be the brightest post I have ever read in a while. Your theology is about as far out as anyone I have ever come in contact with. First things first, I personally don't see how that you can say you believe in some God and be Christian. Because when you become a Christian, you take God and everything about Him by faith. And last time I checked, God said that He created everyone and everything, therefore, He doesn't believe in evolution. And as far as the Bible not being absolutely fact........prove it! I don't think you can! Sorry, this one just sort of took a bite out of one of my nerves.

fisherguy

07-06-2005, 12:55 PM

i think it is pretty easy to prove not everything in the bible is fact. FOr example, a human cannot survive in teh belly of a whale. YOu would be crushed, suffocate, and digested. Can't prove teh whole bible is fake, but some parts of it have certainly been embellished or distorted(ie, Jonah and the whale)

bexar_county89

07-06-2005, 04:34 PM

so maybe we can't prove (beyond a reasonable doubt) that jonah was swallowed by a whale or that noah and the ark happened, or moses came down mt. sinai with the 10 comandements. so maybe you could prove (beyond a reasonable doubt) that evolution did take place, http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

We're all friends here, and no matter who believes what we'll come out o.k. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif i've read some serious stuff on here, that makes me believe that everyone who replied, has an educated opinion and belief. those who believe in God and those who don't, those who believe God is science, and those who are somewhere in between http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif thank you for defending what you believe in, no matter how ludacris it may seem to everyone else http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

preacherman

07-06-2005, 04:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i think it is pretty easy to prove not everything in the bible is fact. FOr example, a human cannot survive in teh belly of a whale. YOu would be crushed, suffocate, and digested. Can't prove teh whole bible is fake, but some parts of it have certainly been embellished or distorted(ie, Jonah and the whale)

[/ QUOTE ]

Then I guess that it would be an easy thing for me to lose my monkey hair and my tadpole tail and just become a human. I have had some people say that I am the descendent of a donkey http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif but that is beside the point! As far as your point of how that some of the Bible has been embellished or distorted, I don't think you can prove that either. Because truth be known, there are many points in evolution in my mind that are embellished and distorted as well. I take it kind of personally that some believe that we as humans came from monkeys, but I guess that is beside the point. As far as your thought on Jonah, I don't know how Jonah survived in the belly of the whale..........because truth be known it is beyond human comprehension how that something like this can humnaly take place, but my Lord put it in His wordas truth, so I believe it. Like I have said in past posts........you take your belief by faith and we take our belief by faith as well.

Strut_Buster

07-06-2005, 10:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Evolution is fact. I'm christian and can't deny this. I am Christan, I believe there is some god.

The bible is not absolute fact. Basicaly is a series of metaphors for man to chew and decide how to live their life.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now, without a doubt, this has to be the brightest post I have ever read in a while. Your theology is about as far out as anyone I have ever come in contact with. First things first, I personally don't see how that you can say you believe in some God and be Christian. Because when you become a Christian, you take God and everything about Him by faith. And last time I checked, God said that He created everyone and everything, therefore, He doesn't believe in evolution. And as far as the Bible not being absolutely fact........prove it! I don't think you can! Sorry, this one just sort of took a bite out of one of my nerves.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah..... I'ma take another bite. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif How About YOU PROOVE IT!!!1 I'm dieing to hear your explinations. If you da man like you say you are.. produce some hard facts... i dunno.. how bout the holy grail.. or Moses's cane.. or maybe the ark.. better yet.. don't prove it. I am a christian. I'm Luthern.. maybe a lil bit more liberal than yourself.. but I believe in Jesus. My pastor accepted evolution. Does that make this man of god a non believer. Ha.. I suppose you don't believe in Dinosaurs.. they are just apesto you.Do you believe in cave men? Thats fine. I guess you don't believe in the Ice Age.. don't show that movie to your kids.. they may get ideas about the past and start thinking ouside a box. Is the World Flat too? http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif