Religious/political Scenerio [Archive]

johnf

01-22-2006, 10:43 PM

This is why politics and religion DO mix.

With the nuclear situation in Iran, it is entirely feasable that Isreal would want to launch a pre-emptive strike against Iran before they have full nuclear capabilities. This would send the middle east into a frenzy. Russia, who provides most of the the middle east with military equiptment would want to stabilze the situation. The most logical way for them to do this would be to form an aliance with the Muslem states and attack Isreal. No Isreal=peace in the middle East.

This is where we have the biblical situation. Russia is in the biblical region of Gog while a unified middle Eastern uniion is Magog. This is straight out of the book of Revilations. Gog and Magog join forces to attack Isreal and are destroyed by God in the mountains before reaching Isreal.

For those of you who don't belive the bible, this shouldn't matter. For the rest of us, this is a very................anxious time.

Opinions, comments welcome.

okbowman

01-23-2006, 03:21 AM

read the bible again, Gog and Magog come after the 1000 year millenium. Armageddon comes first and that's where God comes and destroys the enemies of Israel

johnf

01-23-2006, 08:56 AM

That's an interpritation along with post tribulation rapture, yet another interpritation I don't agree with, not fact.

slugshooter

01-23-2006, 09:31 AM

So what you are saying johnf is that you don't take the bible literally? Do you pick and choose which you choose to take literally and agree with? I am just wondering because I have seen numerous arguments on here about literal interpretations vs. non-literal and how others on here are made to feel un-Christian or told they are atheists because they don't believe and agree with 100% of what is in the bible.

johnf

01-23-2006, 10:15 AM

No I'm talking about interpreting the same thing literally in two different ways. It's like two people seeing the same thing happen and taking away two different ideas.

Texan_Til_I_Die

01-23-2006, 11:35 AM

Apart from the Biblical references, I'm going to say that your premise of no Israel = peace in the Middle East is incorrect. Those are undoubtedly the most bellicose group of people on the planet. If Israel isn't there, they'll still find plenty of reasons to fight each other and the West.

johnf

01-23-2006, 11:39 AM

But that is what they see as the reason for most of their actions at present.

jdickey

01-23-2006, 05:14 PM

So..... whose book is right? Those that follow the Koran... or those that follow the Bible?

INHunterman

01-23-2006, 06:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So..... whose book is right? Those that follow the Koran... or those that follow the Bible?

[/ QUOTE ]

The bible of course. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

stevebeilgard

01-23-2006, 10:15 PM

remember, that neck of the world has not seen a 10 year period of peace since jesus walked the earth

johnf

01-23-2006, 10:38 PM

The Koran was written by a schizophrenic, child molester named Mohomid who wrote it when he awoke from eppileptic seisures. The Koan took the beginning of the bible and some of the teachings of Christ, added to them and perverted them into a book that teaches hate, death and redemption through murder.

To put the Koran and the bible on the same plain is ignorant at best.

jdickey

01-24-2006, 10:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The Koran was written by a schizophrenic, child molester named Mohomid who wrote it when he awoke from eppileptic seisures. The Koan took the beginning of the bible and some of the teachings of Christ, added to them and perverted them into a book that teaches hate, death and redemption through murder.

To put the Koran and the bible on the same plain is ignorant at best.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then there are those that state that the Bible is nothing but a book of Jewish folk tales! That Christians tried to conquer the world to MAKE people adhere to their beliefs! The Old Testament teaches that war is the way to heaven.

It's all in the manner of interpretation.

buckee

01-24-2006, 11:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The Old Testament teaches that war is the way to heaven.

[/ QUOTE ]
No it doesn't http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif It does however show us how God established law through some battles that he sanctioned.
There is no promise of eternal bliss in the old testament, concerning war or killing anyone.

Jimfrompa

01-24-2006, 12:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]

For those of you who don't belive the bible, this shouldn't matter. For the rest of us, this is a very................anxious time.

Opinions, comments welcome.

[/ QUOTE ]
We as christians need not be anxious. But in all things seek God's will and rest in the truth that God has won and no matter what things look like he is in charge. And even if we are killed we will be with him. Remember we are just passing through this earth on our way to eternity.

Andrea

01-24-2006, 12:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

For those of you who don't belive the bible, this shouldn't matter. For the rest of us, this is a very................anxious time.

Opinions, comments welcome.

[/ QUOTE ]
We as christians need not be anxious. But in all things seek God's will and rest in the truth that God has won and no matter what things look like he is in charge. And even if we are killed we will be with him. Remember we are just passing through this earth on our way to eternity.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, as Christians, shouldn't we be anxious to get to Heaven and see God?? I think that is what johnf meant. Not to be worried, but be........anxious!! http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

jdickey

01-24-2006, 02:31 PM

Please read this prayer from an American....

Great Spirit, once more behold me on earth and lean to hear my feeble voice. You lived first, and you are older than all need, older than all prayer. All things belong to you - the two-legged, the four-legged, the wings of the air, and all green things that live.

You have set the powers of the four quarters of the earth to cross each other. You have made me cross the good road and road of difficulties, and where they cross, the place is holy. Day in, day out, forevermore, you are the life of things."

Black Elk: Holy Man of the Oglala Sioux

johnf

01-24-2006, 04:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The Old Testament teaches that war is the way to heaven.

It's all in the manner of interpretation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Spoken like a person who has never read the old testiment. It's not a matter of interpretation, that's a matter of being able to read on a 6th grade level.

johnf

01-24-2006, 04:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

For those of you who don't belive the bible, this shouldn't matter. For the rest of us, this is a very................anxious time.

Opinions, comments welcome.

[/ QUOTE ]
We as christians need not be anxious. But in all things seek God's will and rest in the truth that God has won and no matter what things look like he is in charge. And even if we are killed we will be with him. Remember we are just passing through this earth on our way to eternity.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, as Christians, shouldn't we be anxious to get to Heaven and see God?? I think that is what johnf meant. Not to be worried, but be........anxious!! http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Worried for the unsaved and anxious to get them to understand the good news and to get me and them into heaven.

Hope that clarifies my statement.

jdickey

01-24-2006, 06:14 PM

Need not to worry....

For the time speedily shall come that all churches which are built up to get gain, and all those who are built up to get power over the flesh, and those who are built up to become popular in the eyes of the world, and those who seek the lusts of the flesh and the things of the world, and to do all manner of iniquity; yea, in fine, all those who belong to the kingdom of the devil are they who need fear, and tremble, and quake; they are those who must be brought low in the dust; they are those who must be consumed as stubble; and this is according to the words of the prophet.

1 NEPHI 22:23

markyj987

01-24-2006, 06:50 PM

It seems that every street corner preacher and political radical has been predicting the end times since the beginning of Christianity...

" 18I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. " Rev 22:18-19

This is what I hear in my head every time someone predicts the end is near. In Revelations, it says it is soon-is that not good enough? Instead of just having faith, people try to make predictions, debate about the rapture, etc. If you are saved--does exactly WHAT happens at the end of this world even relevent?

Sure, it's human nature to have some thoughts on when it may happen--we are not pefect. But admittedly, I roll my eyes every time someone does make a prediction on this.

Jimfrompa

01-24-2006, 07:14 PM

horst

01-24-2006, 09:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Spoken like a person who has never read the old testiment. It's not a matter of interpretation, that's a matter of being able to read on a 6th grade level.

[/ QUOTE ]

Funny, someone says your wrong about something you say its open to intrerpretation, somebody else says something you disagree with you get insulting about it.

jdickey

01-24-2006, 10:43 PM

Thanks Horst!
Theologians have been "interpreting the Bible" for hundreds of years.... most had more than a "6th grade education"!

Here's another venue....

http://www.sevenseals.com
(works best with I/E)

johnf

01-24-2006, 10:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Spoken like a person who has never read the old testiment. It's not a matter of interpretation, that's a matter of being able to read on a 6th grade level.

[/ QUOTE ]

Funny, someone says your wrong about something you say its open to intrerpretation, somebody else says something you disagree with you get insulting about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not an insult, the bible for the most part is written on about a 6th grade level. If someone has read it and can comprehend that level they would know that that was an incorrect statement. There is nothing left to interpritation. I was not insulting him just doubting he ever read it in the first place.

Good to see you chime in Horst. It's been a while.

johnf

01-24-2006, 10:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]

1 NEPHI 22:23

[/ QUOTE ]

From the book of Mormon for those of you who don't know. See Marky's post, he pretty much covered this one.

No offence intended, but Mormon's believe a great deception and are bound for a sinners ****.

BowJoe

01-25-2006, 08:02 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If you are saved--does exactly WHAT happens at the end of this world even relevent?

[/ QUOTE ]What exactly does "Saved" mean? I know what it means, but do you really think anyone is saved. Just because you say you give your heart to God doesn't mean you are saved from ever going to Hellk. I was once told the best response to people trying to put my faith to the test. God ain't done with me yet. As long as their's still breath in my lungs or a thought in my head, I have a hope of being forgiven and being accepted into heaven on Judgement Day. If I can think to God that I want to be forgiven and forgive all of those that have ever wronged me or that I hold a bad thought against then God will for give me in the name of Jesus Christ.

johnf

01-25-2006, 09:14 AM

I hate to tell you this BowJoe, but biblically speeking, if you wait till judgement day to profess Christ, then it's going to be too late. The bible says "By grace we are saved through faith, not by works" None of us will ever be good enough to deserve the eternal reward of heaven while we are still alive.

Christ died for all man's sins, but unless you go through him and his shed blood, you will not reach the Father.

Saved means that you believe Christ is the Son of God, that he died and rose from the dead so that his blood could be the one and final sacrifice for the sin that we commit. When you believe that and you ask him for this free gift of Salvation, you are saved.

It's that simple, but if you want me to explain it better I will.

horst

01-25-2006, 09:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Good to see you chime in Horst. It's been a while.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I been lurking in the background for awhile http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

jdickey

01-25-2006, 09:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

1 NEPHI 22:23

[/ QUOTE ]

From the book of Mormon for those of you who don't know. See Marky's post, he pretty much covered this one.

No offence intended, but Mormon's believe a great deception and are bound for a sinners ****.

[/ QUOTE ]
MORMONS are Christians too, just as Catholics, Church of Christ, Baptists, Methodists, and many others of a Christian belief.

But apparently, if they do not agree with YOUR particular religious belief.. they are doomed to perdition and Hades for eternity.

Sounds somewhat hypocritcal! http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

horst

01-25-2006, 11:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

1 NEPHI 22:23

[/ QUOTE ]

From the book of Mormon for those of you who don't know. See Marky's post, he pretty much covered this one.

No offence intended, but Mormon's believe a great deception and are bound for a sinners ****.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dang, thats the same thing I was talking about in my first post.So now your interpretations the only right one and anyone who belireves differentlys going to ****?remember eariler conversations in here about holier than though attitudes actualy driving people away from religion?Im begining to wonder if you dont have that exact attitude we were discussing http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

johnf

01-25-2006, 02:25 PM

If you believe the bible, which I do, then you also must believe what Markyj posted. It's a very well known exerpt from the book of Revilations which states that anything added to or taken away from the bible was a lie, deception whatever, but is not from God.

The simple fact is that if I am to believe the bible, then no other book, Koran, Book of Morman or what ever was written after the book of revilations can be taken as truth. In fact the bible specifically curses those who believes them.

I have no "holier than thow" attitude. That's what the bible says, and I believe the bible.

Whether it was Joseph Smith, Jim Jones, David Koresh, Hebert W. Armstrong, Charles Taze Russell, L. Ron Hubbard, the dalli lama or Mohomid. To claim to be a Christain or to have a "New Gospel" is to go directly against what God says, and makes them either a liar or decieved.

I grew up in one of the cults started by one of the men listed and was completely decieved by his half truths and ommisions. It was only when I read the bible for myself without the rules of my cult leaders that the Holy Spirit opened my eyes to the truth.

I only wish someone who cared for me would have been a good enough friend to share the truth with me earlier.

I do not condem, the word of God does. I just report the news.

Andrea

01-25-2006, 03:26 PM

I wonder if you took a poll and asked all the CHRISTIANS in here if they think that Mormons are in deed Christians....what the response would be.

There are such things as cults. Mormonism is one of them. They have a nice facade going and it looks okay on the outside...but anyone who takes away from the BIBLE and adds to it have sinned against God. It says so in the Book of Revelations.

Mormons believe that Joseph Smith came across some golden templates from "GOD" in the 1800's and he wrote an entire bible of his own that describes how Jesus came back to AMERICA after his ressurection.

They also believe a lot of other crazy things. They teach that MEN can become gods and have their own planets. And that these MEN will call their WIVES to be with them in this "Heaven". And once there...they will populate this planet of theirs.

God warns us to beware of false prophets. Joseph Smith and Brigham Young are two of them. There are many many more.

You have to read your Bible and educate yourself to learn how to decipher who IS and ISN'T a Christian.

stevebeilgard

01-25-2006, 09:59 PM

doesn't god love all those who believe? all who pray to him, and ask for salvation? does that exclude mormons, or catholics, or jews, or lutherans, or amish, or ....

horst

01-25-2006, 10:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
doesn't god love all those who believe? all who pray to him, and ask for salvation? does that exclude mormons, or catholics, or jews, or lutherans, or amish, or ....

[/ QUOTE ]

Apparently not, there must be a secret handshake or something you need to know http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

slugshooter

01-25-2006, 11:04 PM

Where is andymansavage when you need him. I had some PM's with andy regarding Mormonism. One thing I have realized in my short 30 years so far, is that what I was told when I was a kid about certain other denominations (Catholic, Episcopalian, etc. etc.) was basically false in order to make you adhere to the churches way of thinking and to look down on other denominations. The things mentioned earlier about some of the Mormon beliefs are falsehoods by people associated with the church who are not so anymore. While I don't necessarily believe the Book of Mormon was "inspired by God", who is to say it isn't. Not a single one of us knows what happened to Joseph Smith on his pilgrimage and if he received this message from Christ himself. And who is to say that Christ has not appeared in America at some point, he can do anything he wants can he not, he came to earth once before, some reports have him having been in England and Tibet in the period between his boyhood and his emergence as an adult before he was crucified. The point is this. It doesn't matter when or where Christ has been, the point is that Christ died for every single one of us and to enter into heaven one must be born again and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Everything else that is being debated and discussed and argued about is secondary and only serves to divide the church and God's people.

johnf

01-25-2006, 11:08 PM

God is love, for salvation you must accept that love on his terms, not yours.

No secrets, it's all been spelled out in this thread.

Mormans don't worship my God. There's allows equals along with other blasfimies like poligami. So the answer to that is no. Though I've never met a Morman I didn't truely like and enjoy being around. They have been genuanlly nice people. I can't say that about my own religion.

Many Catholics practice Idolitry (praying to statues or crosses) while I do believe many do have a personal relationship with Christ and are saved through grace, most are decieved by the traditions of a long currupt religion.

Lutherans to my knowledge are a bible believing church who's basic difference from other prodistant denominations is their form of church government. I don't guess there are any less Lutherans going to heaven than any other bible believing church.

Amish from what I understand are very devout bible believing Christians. I would guess they would have a higher persentage than most.

Any more?

Jimfrompa

01-25-2006, 11:30 PM

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
All you have to do is accept it. Anyone, Everyone.

1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
Please don't be on that perishes.

buckee

01-26-2006, 12:58 AM

"But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear." I Peter 3:15

"Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." II Timothy 2:15
-------------------------

A common question asked of Christians who make an effort to witness to Mormons is: "Why are you attacking Mormonism? We never malign your faith, so why attack ours?"

The fact is, proving Mormonism to be a false doctrine is not an attack but a defense of the Christian faith. Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism made the first attack by claiming that all Christian denominations are an abomination in God's sight.

If a Latter Day Saint should ask you this question, you need only look as far as their own scriptures and to the words of their leaders for an answer:

Journal of Discourses 5:73--"When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was groveling in darkness."

Journal of Discourses 8:99--"With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world."

Journal of Discourses 6:25--"What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute beast."

Orson Pratt (Mormon Apostle)--"..all other churches are entirely destitute of all authority from God; and any person who receives baptism of the Lord's supper from their hands highly offend God, for he looks upon them as the most corrupt of all people" (The Seer, pg 255)

Heber C. Kimball (First Counselor to Brigham Young)--"Christians - those poor, miserable priests Brother Brigham was speaking about - some of them are the biggest whoremasters there are on the earth..." (Journal of Discourses 5:39)

BowJoe

01-26-2006, 07:16 AM

I wasn't saying to wait until the last minute to ask for forgiveness or until judgement day. I am simply saying that you may live a fruitful life in the eyes of the lord but in your final hour, if you sin and do not seek forgiveness then you will go to **** on judgement day. It works both ways. If you are a sinner and in your final hour you seek God and forgiveness then you will be forgiven and allowed to enter into Heaven on Judgement Day.

johnf

01-26-2006, 09:03 AM

So which sins did Jesus' deat cover? What about the sins that you commit that you don't know about. Christ shed blood covers every sin you commit from the day you are able to sin till the time you can't and all in between. On his death they were all future sins. When you asked for forgivness for your sins and he saved (tence) you from them. They were all forgiven, even those you have yet to commit.

For this we were given the spirit of adoption by which we can not do anything to change. When you are saved, you are a child of God, forever.