America

[shotupdeer]

Is supposed to be a tolerant accepting eual opprtunity place, right?


When will we see our first gay black atheist woman president?

[TreeStandBowHunter]

Whats with these posts man? http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Are you setting people up to reply something negative so you can stir the pot http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

First off, I doubt in my lifetime (and I am only 30), we will ever see a black president. I think I might see a woman president before I hit the big hole but never a black president. Now, to your theory about the black gay woman who is athiest or whatever....dude, come on man....don't you think that is a little far fetched. If that were to happen...which I don't see, I doubt my kids great grandchildren would ever see that. Let's try to make sense here man, Ok. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[LifeNRA]

Just look at his avatar! It explains everything! http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Norm Sauceman]

http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[wtnhunt]

Shotup has been away for a while, guess he is making up for lost time.

Yeah buddy, that would really show the world the great character of our nation.

Think you have fried your brain.

[LifeNRA]

[ QUOTE ]
Think you have fried your brain.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes his avatar shows his brain is all bubbly! http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[buckee]

[ QUOTE ]
When will we see our first gay black atheist woman president?

[/ QUOTE ]
That is a mouthful http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
I hope you never see a Gay, or an atheist president, but as far as a black woman/woman president goes...sounds ok to me, as long as she's qualified. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Shaun_300]

i have the same thoughts as Northforker on this one. i dont think you will ever see a gay or athiest president but the black or a woman president will come eventually http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[fisherguy]

I think you may see a woman in teh next 10 to 20 years(hopefully not hillary for your sake), and black(or other minority) about the same time frame.

[Steven]

Maybe a Black woman, hopefully Condeleeza Rice, but gay atheist, not likely

[Strut10]

I think Northforker is, pretty much, on track. And I did his math. The way I have it figured, our first gay, black,atheist, woman president can be expected about 120 years after never. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I mean, really.......................I never thought it would get this hard to come up with material since we don't have John & John Boy to poke at anymore. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[slugshooter]

I believe there will possibly be a woman president before a black president. The way things are now though I don't think it will be as close in the future as you guys think. Granted, women have made great strides in government and the workplace in general, but there are a lot of men that run things in this country that would fight tooth and nail before we ever had a woman president. I have no problems in believing a woman could run things, might possibly be the best president we ever had, that goes for an african-american also. There are a lot of things that we use in this world that have been invented by blacks that many don't know about, traffic lights for instance.

[wtnhunt]

[ QUOTE ]
I believe there will possibly be a woman president before a black president.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can see it now. 2008 sluggo is voting for hillary. Not all thatlong back there was talk of Colin Powell possibly being the first black President. A black or a woman President might happen in my lifetime.

[ParrotHead]

I just love it when someone spouts off about “equal opportunity” when it comes to voter elected positions. There’s no more evidence of true equal opportunity than an election where everyone votes. You’ve already gotten your equal opportunity in the work force, albeit screwed up – you have some groups screaming that they need to make up 50 percent of the workforce when they don’t make up but 18 percent of the total population. You know, there’s a reason why some don’t make it – they can’t even do simple math!

But since we’re talking about elected officials then lets look at the races of the past few years. Want a gay President? So far no one has stepped up. Want a woman President? So far no woman has even ran for the office. Want a black President? So far Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and Alan Keyes have had the balls to attempt a run at the office and if you think 2 of the 3 can run this country then you’re just a plain idiot. But given that – the people spoke (in votes) and someone else ran in their place.

What an idiot – crying for equal opportunity for elected officials! You can’t get more equal when you have a system that allows freedom of choice and the freedom to actually run for office.

[ParrotHead]

You know – this subject has really gotten to me since I read it and replied and since we have so many that are all for equal opportunity around here then let me ask what they have done in the past few days to make sure equal opportunity is happening at the government level?

Probably not one dam’d thing!

Care to know who’s stopping the Condi Rice nomination? Why none other than the Grand Wizard of the KKK himself Robert Byrd! Can you imagine if a white Republican who had been a former Klansman was blocking the nomination of a black liberal Democrat to be secretary of state? The media and public would be all over this to no end! So where’s all the “equal rights” and “equal opportunity” nuts at now when they’re really needed?

Don’t give me this **** about equal opportuinity! You’re only for it when it’s in your favor and when it’s not, you’ll turn your back on and pretend everything’s ok!

[johnf]

I guess that would be right befor or after the rapture. Anyway, Buckee and I wouldn't have to deal with it for long. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[slugshooter]

I don't think anyone has said anything about equal opportunity in this thread Parrothead, it seems to me that everyone on here is basically speculating as to what minority would be elected president first, a woman, a black man or woman, who knows. As fas as Byrd blocking Rice's nomination, thats the first time I have heard his name brought up in anything to do with Rice's nomination, last week everyone was cussing Kerry and Boxer for not making a unanimous decision for her, the point being, she will be confirmed, there is no way she wouldn't , I would bet that every Republican and most every Democrat would approve her confirmation in the Senate just because there is no way that she wouldn't win.

[ParrotHead]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think anyone has said anything about equal opportunity in this thread Parrothead,

[/ QUOTE ]

I beg to differ seeing that the original poster stated the following:

Is supposed to be a tolerant accepting eual opprtunity place, right?

Now one can only assume that "eual" was suppose to be "equal" then goes onto mention a President which is an elected position.

Please excuse me if "eual opportunity" actually means something totally different in Ebonics or some other form of dialect heard today....

[slugshooter]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think anyone has said anything about equal opportunity in this thread Parrothead,

[/ QUOTE ]

I beg to differ seeing that the original poster stated the following:

Is supposed to be a tolerant accepting eual opprtunity place, right?

Now one can only assume that "eual" was suppose to be "equal" then goes onto mention a President which is an elected position.

Please excuse me if "eual opportunity" actually means something totally different in Ebonics or some other form of dialect heard today....

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, so the start of the thread did say that, but it has since evolved from that. There is no way to enforce an equal opportunity law in elected positions, but, the legislative body is technically "supposed" to be representative of the American population, in a perfect world it would be but we all know it is not going to happen.

Lets look at some figures from my Comparative Politics book concerning ethnic populations from the 2000 census.

White 77%
Black 13%
Asian 4%
AmIn 1.5%
Other 4%

So out of 535 members of the legislative body there should be:

412 White
70 Black
22 Asian
9 American Indian
22 Other

Now thats in a perfect world where each ethnic group is represented in the legislature. I am in no way saying that it is because of racism or lack of equal opportunity, cause there are many factors that go into this. There are many districts that have been continously gerrymandered to ensure a specific outcome for a particluar party or person. Unfortunately there would have to be major reform to fix any of this, plus, there would have to be a majority of members in congress that suprisingly discovered ethics overnight.

[ParrotHead]

Ok, we can play the numbers game and you’re right, given the number of seats however you’re missing two key elements in your equation – how many minorities hold a federal seat today PLUS how many actually ran for a seat in Congress or the House or even state and local governments?

You can cry for racial mix all you want but the fact remains if you don’t run for a seat, you’re not going to get elected. If white males between the ages of X and X are the only people running for political offices then that’s all you’re going to get, like it or not. If a white guys is running against a black guy and the white guy wins because of any reason, then that’s called a democracy vote as to where the majority rules. Can this type of system produce results that are bad? Absolutely and can be construed as unfair but where’s the fairness in appointing someone to a position just because of their race?

You’re young right now – just wait until you’re overlooked or not hired because of quota and see how you feel about racial mix. I’m a manager that hires and fires people and while you and I and HR don’t want to admit it, there are hiring quotas that exist and they are the furthest thing from being fair.

And yes – there are places in the US that ensure an outcome, you only have to look as far as Atlanta Georgia to see this. Many years ago the whites moved out and the blacks stayed. Now you have a city government that has a majority of leadership that is black. For your plan to work, you’ll have to take “bussing” to an all-new level. Instead of bussing students from one school to another, you’re bussing votes from one precinct to another in an attempt to insure racial equality, how ethical is that?

[slugshooter]

Thats what I was trying to get at PH, I wasn't trying to say that we should force our legislature to be representative of our population, the only way people get elected is to run for office. If there are 50 seats up and 1 black person trying to win one of those seats, well, that's not anybodies fault but those who chose not to run. Maybe there is noone qualified in that district, maybe they feel it is hopeless cause the district is primarily white, that's why voting lines are drawn to tr and include as equal an amount of ethnic groups as possible, but there is no guarantee.

[slugshooter]

As far as being young, well, to you I might, to some I'm not, I don't feel young at 28. I probably have missed out on jobs based mainly because I am white, most recently at the County Sheriffs Dept. I interviewed at last November. If this Sheriffs Dept here in Cumberland County wasn't required to hire a certain amount of minorities they wouldn't hire a single one, thats where affirmative action plays a good role. I work with a female deputy who before she was hired at the county she applied at a PD in a town here in the county, the police chief of that town said he would never hire another woman as an officer, I have a problem with that and every American should.

[TreeStandBowHunter]

[ QUOTE ]
I probably have missed out on jobs based mainly because I am white, most recently at the County Sheriffs Dept. I interviewed at last November.

[/ QUOTE ]


And I think that is BS MAN. No company should be forced to hire a minority (and as I see it these days, the white people are the minorities...but anyway) just to fill quotas to stay out of trouble. They need to hire who they deem fit for the job. And your right, if a white guy and black guy apply for the same job, so many times today the black guy will get it just so the black guy won't call CNN and raise a fuss saying the company is racist. BS man BS http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[slugshooter]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I probably have missed out on jobs based mainly because I am white, most recently at the County Sheriffs Dept. I interviewed at last November.

[/ QUOTE ]


And I think that is BS MAN. No company should be forced to hire a minority (and as I see it these days, the white people are the minorities...but anyway) just to fill quotas to stay out of trouble. They need to hire who they deem fit for the job. And your right, if a white guy and black guy apply for the same job, so many times today the black guy will get it just so the black guy won't call CNN and raise a fuss saying the company is racist. BS man BS http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I have a problem with a white man getting hired over black if the black is more qualified but I also have a problem with a black getting hired over a white if the white is more qualified. It's a lose-lose situation when you really get right down to it. Affirmative Action wasn't meant to make sure companies hire minorities that weren't qualified, it is meant to make sure that the minority who is qualified or better qualified get the job or at least a fair shot, but like any other program in America it is abused to the extent that it's main focus has been lost under a heaping pile of.....................................bureaucracy .

[wtnhunt]

[ QUOTE ]
t's a lose-lose situation when you really get right down to it. Affirmative Action wasn't meant to make sure companies hire minorities that weren't qualified, it is meant to make sure that the minority who is qualified or better qualified get the job or at least a fair shot, but like any other program in America it is abused

[/ QUOTE ] Who are you and what have you done with sluggo? Cannot believe I actually agree with you on something LOL. You are absolutely right. The system is very abused.

[slugshooter]

Believe it or not I am not as much of a hard core liberal as I have been made out to be on here, I consider myself just left of a moderate. My supervisor at work is a black woman, we had a good discussion last week about race and things of that nature. One of her biggest gripes was blacks always bringing up slavery and this and that and basically she was saying they need to get over it. She is going to school there at work just like myself and majoring in Social Work, she agrees that life is tougher for minorities and blacks in general, not because anyone is "holding them back" but because they are holding themselves back, especially with the programs out today. The problem is most people don't want to help themselves.

In Comparative Politics right now we are studying England, Margaret Thatcher instituted a program over in England that I think would be great here but I am sure it would never fly. Instead of Government housing where someone lives rent and utilities free with the government taking all the expense, they built the housing and opened it up for people to live just as a housing project would here, the only thing is they charged them a low rent so eventually they would be able to own the home and in turn, because they were "buying" they could build equity and borrow money on the home to further stimulate the economy, not to mention that when people are paying and owning their own property they tend to take care of the home and the neighborhood better. I think a program like that would be awesome here in the US but the problem is as soon as you propose people having to make a house payment in government housing, they won't care about the fact that they will own the home one day, they just care that they aren't getting a free ride.

[TreeStandBowHunter]

[ QUOTE ]
Believe it or not I am not as much of a hard core liberal as I have been made out to be on here, I consider myself just left of a moderate. My supervisor at work is a black woman, we had a good discussion last week about race and things of that nature. One of her biggest gripes was blacks always bringing up slavery and this and that and basically she was saying they need to get over it. She is going to school there at work just like myself and majoring in Social Work, she agrees that life is tougher for minorities and blacks in general, not because anyone is "holding them back" but because they are holding themselves back, especially with the programs out today. The problem is most people don't want to help themselves.



[/ QUOTE ]

Slugo, I couldn't have said it better. They need to get over that old school crap. Look, they have the negro college fund, their own colleges where only black people can go to. What would happen if the white community started that. I know it used to be like that but those days are over. There are so many opportunities out there for EVERYBODY, but it always seems like more want to live the life of a thug than make something of themselves. JMHO anyway!

[slugshooter]

[ QUOTE ]
There are so many opportunities out there for EVERYBODY, but it always seems like more want to live the life of a thug than make something of themselves. JMHO anyway!

[/ QUOTE ]

I know the Marines probably won't bring you here to Fayetteville, even though you were a few hours away , we never did get to go hunting together, but if you ever came to here you would probably have a heart attack, everybody thinks they are a thug in this town, white,black,red, brown,purple. I told my supervisor that I have driven through areas on the south and west side of Chicago where these guys wouldn't last a night with their "thuglike" attitude.

[ParrotHead]

Yeah, I’m pretty sure that when Johnson signed this into law he wasn’t counting on all the lawyers and the ACLU jumping on the civil rights and discremenation bandwagon!

Some will argue it doesn’t exsist but is does and it makes me sick to. In the past year I’ve seen un-qualified people put into positions they have no idea about, no experience and then drag the rest of the group down to a crawl trying to carry these people because of 2 reasons and 2 reasons only. They were a certain color and a certain gender.

Sad isn't it? One of these days the hand out crowd is going to wake up and there's no more hand outs to be had - you think it's bad now - just wait until that time.

[wtnhunt]

[ QUOTE ]
They need to get over that old school crap. Look, they have the negro college fund, their own colleges where only black people can go to. What would happen if the white community started that. I know it used to be like that but those days are over. There are so many opportunities out there for EVERYBODY, but it always seems like more want to live the life of a thug than make something of themselves.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could not agree more. There would be lawsuits flying if ever there became a white american college fund or similar. Does not hardly seem right, but that is the way it is. Seems in a way that the discrimination is kept alive and thriving for the most part within that community itself.