Are the churches going gay or what?

[TreeStandBowHunter]

What is with this state. Is everybody gay up here that churches and everything else has to support the gay and lesbian community up here in Mass.

Look, I am a Christian (or should I say I believe), I am probably not a good role model for one but anyway, this is the latest scoop from TSBH http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Alright, my wife is a good Christian...unlike me...so I try to take my family to church every Sunday. Well, we found a what I thought nice church right up the road from us. It is a Methodist Church. Today we went and it was nice and we liked it...only until I discovered thier beliefs. They say that they welcome EVERYBODY including " any Sexual Orientation". So after the service one of the ushers asked us how we liked the service and me being a smart *** that I am, I asked him if I was reading this right and he said I was. I then said "Well, that is surely good to know". He must of guessed that I am against it so he said "we do not discriminate against anybody" and I then said "well I will not put my kids around something like that because I do not want him to think that it is OK because it is not". That was pretty much the end of the conversation but we were then certainly the outcast after that. I know this probably happens in all states but this state has got to be the worst with this stuff.

[fisherguy]

LMBO that must have been quite the sight to see...i mean the look on your wifes face. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Oh, and i love the title of this thread. lol Sounds like quite the state you are living in, guess you should call aroung to the churches before next sunday. For some reason i don't think you will be too shy to ask their stance on the subject. Good luck finding a normal church, there must be at least one in the state.

[buckee]

Are you sure you didn't take it the wrong way ??

It is one thing to welcome the gay community into the church to hear what the bible has to say about what they practice, and possibly be converted, but a totally different thing to welcome them into the church and then hiding the truth in God's word about what they do and accepting their sexual orientation with open arms.
The Bible talks about the apostacy (falling away from sound doctrine) of the churches, in the last days. Could this be what we are witnessing in this day and age ??
I left one of the churches I used to attend, because they were planning on ordaining, "practicing" homosexuals as ministers. Now I can understand and accept the ordaining of a converted homosexual to the ministry, but not a practicing one. A minister is supposed to be beyond reproach. If he is a practicing homosexual, he is far from being beyond reproach. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

This is what I believe, with Gods word as my back-up http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[TreeStandBowHunter]

Buckee, I need to take someone to Logan INT...when I get back, I will quote what the paper says. I understand about a converted one and everything but I really don't think thats what they meant. They welcome EVERYBODY. I will type it on here later tonight for you all to read and tell me what you think.

Ok, I am off to Boston-Logan...I wonder how many gay folks I will run into there http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[johnf]

We have some friends that just joined our Southern Baptist church after their new paster at the Methodist church turned out to be a lesbian. It was not a closet case, it was very open. When they talked to the people in charge (not sure who that is in a methodist church) They said that the methodist church did not discriminate when it came to their pasters. I know if that is happening here in the bible belt then it's probibly the same everywhere else.

Personally I don't think they should be allowed to preach, teach or have any leadership role in the church. But they should be taught the truth so that they can be "saved" and repent. That won't happen if you don't allow them in the door. I don't believe a person who has a relationship with Christ can live that lifestyle and not be completely miserable.

[Shaun_300]

i was in church one sunday, right after the government up here proposed that they accept homosexuality, and we had a guest priest in at the church (i am roman catholic btw) and he started talking about how much homosexuality is wrong. he really started to get frustrated on the topic, and at one point was raising his voice against it. the regular priest was sitting in his chair... thankfully, because i think he would have fainted if he was standing, he had the " http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif " look on his face lol. i was really astounded that a priest would talk that open about the subject. but anyways, there was a "couple" two pews behind our family... i can pick a gay guy out of a crowd http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif and i thought that they may have been gay. i heard them start to talk out loud, then all of a sudden they jumped up in the middle of the homily and stormed out of the church!! http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif they were POed lol. i think our regular priest was ready to strangle the guest priest http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[TreeStandBowHunter]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you sure you didn't take it the wrong way ??



[/ QUOTE ]

OK Buckee and everybody else, this is quoted from their program. Tell me if you think I took it the wrong way. READ THE WHOLE THING CAREFULLY...

" RECONCILING & WELCOMING STATEMENT: The United Methodist Church is a community of believers and seekers, with differences in age, class, nationality, gender, marital status, sexual orientation, abilities and limitations. We at Sudbury United Methodist Church recognize that there are attitudes, concerning these diverse characteristics, which violate the integrity of individuals and deny the richness of God's creation. Therefore we affirm our welcome to all people into our community of faith. We are comitted to be a fellowship in which all persons feel a part of our family, enabling them to grow in thier faith, to be fed our fellowship, and to contribute thier talents to the life of the church in its worship, programs, and outreach. We call the church and society to be sensitive to all persons and to advocate programs which attempt to ensure justice for all.

Now what in the heck do you call that crap. Pretty much what I get out of it is that we are supposed to be sensitive to queers. Do you still think I took it the wrong way http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[fisherguy]

[ QUOTE ]
Pretty much what I get out of it is that we are supposed to be sensitive to queers.

[/ QUOTE ]
LMBO that was subtly put. The way i read it anyway is that they welcome everyone and accept everyone and their beliefs. So yes i would say you interpreted that correctly...though i may have phrased it a bit differently. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Steven]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you sure you didn't take it the wrong way ??



[/ QUOTE ]

Umm, I don't think it's TSBH taking anything the wrong way, it's the people he's supposed to accept that "take it the wrong way", if you know what I mean. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Shaun_300]

LMBO @ Racksie
I know what ya mean http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

TSBH - i would have inturpretted (sp?) that paragraph the same way as you man. makes ya wonder eh?? http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[TreeStandBowHunter]

Post deleted by Buckee

[fisherguy]

oh geez, you like to keep buckee busy don't you? http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif I am sure there are one or two things he might want to change. lol

[Steven]

I'm tired off Buckee and his happy go lucky lifestyle up there on the island. We need to give him some gray hairs.

[Tominator]

Geez, why do I wander into the political forum?

Well, some of you know my views on homosexuals, if you don't, well, let's just say I'm not homophobic and I try not to pass judgement on anyone, including homosexuals.

I come at this topic from a different perspective I guess, because I think my brother was gay. He never "came out of the closet," but he had feminine qualities, and hung out with some dudes that were definitely out of the closet.

Having said that, I think some of us need to be more tolerant of gays. I'm sure some gays are out there flaunting it and being lecivious, but there's plenty of straights out there like that too. Just because someone's gay doesn't mean they will be out there trying to convert the world or will be pedophiles. There's good and bad gays just like there's good and bad straights.

I've been taught that God is an all-loving and all-forgiving. Philosophically speaking it just seems to me that God will not condemn a person because they're gay.

I know this will fall on some deaf ears, but it's how I feel.

[buckee]

[ QUOTE ]
RECONCILING & WELCOMING STATEMENT:

[/ QUOTE ]
"RECONCILING" here is another word for "Giving you what your itching ears are dieing to hear"

No...I don't think you took it the wrong way Mike. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Steven]

I have a totally different view of homosexuality, Chris, and it doesn't come from any religeous stand point at all. I have a gay cousin. As a person, he's alright. But, we had an understanding very early on in our relationship- Don't try to force me to be tolerant of your lifestyle. He doesn't talk about his private life and neither do I. We get along just fine on the rare occasion we see each other

Tolerance is nothing but being forced to accept something that you know deep inside is wrong. In other words, betray what you believe so someone else doesn't get their feelings hurt. No dice, I won't do it.

You're free to your opinion, if you have no problem with homosexuality, good for you. But, I have a totally different idea of interpersonal relationships and I see sex for what it is, a way to create life, last time I checked that's hard to accomplish in a gay relationship.

[TreeStandBowHunter]

[ QUOTE ]
Geez, why do I wander into the political forum?

Well, some of you know my views on homosexuals, if you don't, well, let's just say I'm not homophobic and I try not to pass judgement on anyone, including homosexuals.

I come at this topic from a different perspective I guess, because I think my brother was gay. He never "came out of the closet," but he had feminine qualities, and hung out with some dudes that were definitely out of the closet.

Having said that, I think some of us need to be more tolerant of gays. I'm sure some gays are out there flaunting it and being lecivious, but there's plenty of straights out there like that too. Just because someone's gay doesn't mean they will be out there trying to convert the world or will be pedophiles. There's good and bad gays just like there's good and bad straights.

I've been taught that God is an all-loving and all-forgiving. Philosophically speaking it just seems to me that God will not condemn a person because they're gay.

I know this will fall on some deaf ears, but it's how I feel.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tominator, I respect your opinion on that subject but we are talking about a church here. No matter what anybody says or whatever explanation they give, it is wrong...especially for a church to accept it.

I will never be more tolarant to it. But your words are what I am afraid of. I am afraid for my 2 boys. I keep wondering when it is going to happen that they learn in schools what you just said in your post.....that they need to be "tolarant or Sensitive to that subject". But hey, that's your opinion and I respect that but I just hope that teachers don't say what you just said to their students in the future...especially where my kids go to school.

[buckee]

[ QUOTE ]
Having said that, I think some of us need to be more tolerant of gays. I'm sure some gays are out there flaunting it and being lascivious, but there's plenty of straights out there like that too. Just because someone's gay doesn't mean they will be out there trying to convert the world or will be pedophiles. There's good and bad gays just like there's good and bad straights.


[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry your brother was guy (if he was).
The sexual act that homosexuals and lesbians engage in, is what is a sin . God didn't make us to do that. His word is clear on that.
Now, If anyone wants to believe their own take on something and make up their own belief , then that is totally up to them. I will have to stand before the real Lord someday and give an account of myself, just like we all will, saved and unsaved alike.
I don't hate gays, but I am against the sexual acts they perform together, not because it is my private opinion or interpretation of Gods word.
God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for a reason, and it wasn't because he was happy with gayness. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif Homosexuality along with promiscuity in heterosexuals are all a product of Godlessness.
Don't think I am defending everything heterosexuals do, just because I am against Homosexuality.

[ QUOTE ]
ROMANS 1:18-32

18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
21For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen.
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.
28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

1 JOHN 1:5-7

5This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. 6If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

2 Timothy 4-2-4

2Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction. 3For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.


[/ QUOTE ]

[Mathews XT Man]

I've been taught that God is an all-loving and all-forgiving. Philosophically speaking it just seems to me that God will not condemn a person because they're gay
Well, yes he is, but a SIN is still a SIN and God wont tolerate that.......he never did.

[slugshooter]

I stopped going to church regularly when it seemed to me that there was a place in the church for everyone, regardless of how evil you were, except for gays. I've met too many "christian" people who weren't worthy of what I wipe off the bottom of my shoe's and met many gays I would trust my life with. That's all I have to say about that.

[Tominator]

sorry, double post.

[Tominator]

Well, like I said, I shouldn't come into the political forum. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I guess I'm not getting my point across effectively.

I'll try one more time. It is not our place to condemn, it's the Lord's, and there's plenty of instances in the bible where Jesus forgives. I think that's one of the biggest reasons Jesus came to us and taught us.

[dogdoc]

Just remember--God loves the person--just hates the sin--that being adultry or homosexuality. I go to a Southern Baptist. My preacher speaks freely in his sermon on his stance of homosexuality. The bible does also.

Our preacher would be the first one to welcome a homosexual in our church. He wouldn't welcome any homosexual activities (I mean like holding hands) in the service but he and the church would welcome them and pray for them--the same way the church would of a young couple that was living together.

I have several clients that are openly gay--I have become very good friends with these couples. They don't flaunt there homosexuality but both male couples are some of the nicest people I have ever been around.

God is a very forgiving God---no where in the bible does it say where homosexuality is not a forgivable sin. Getting these people in church may just get them thinking about their lifestyle and where they want to spend eternity!

todd

[popgun]

Churches are built and maintained for the sinner.
We, who are Christians, welcome the sinner to our church that they may hear the Word of God, be saved, and part from their paths of sin.
Sin comes in many shapes and sizes and styles, but the bottom line is ..."God hates sin, although He loves the sinner." The Holy Bible tells us this, and I believe it. God has named certain sins that to Him are an abomination. Homosexuality is one of them. A Christian may have been a homosexual at one time, but if that person does not turn from that sin, and truly try to to live a Christian life, that person was never saved and is not a Christian.
If you believe that what the Bible says is true, you must believe that homosexuality is a sin.
When Jesus forgave the sinners he always told them "to sin no more".

Tominator, I sincerely wish you had a different opinion.
I am sure I will not change your mind and will not try.
I do ask how anyone can make the following comment about interracial relationships:

("Still too much social stigmata in my opinion. I've seen some that work, but in most cases they are socially unacceptable.")

Are you saying that a heterosexual couple is socially unacceptable, but that we should condone, tolerate, and socially accept the behavior of homosexuals?

I will agree to disagree with anyone on this issue, no matter how much I respect that persons right to their opinion.
.....popgun

[TreeStandBowHunter]

Don't worry, we will never return. I can't believe what some of you are saying. I can see if a homosexual want's to start going to church or a church wanting homosexuals to attend to maybe start changing his or her ways but I really do not think that's what this church is saying. I mean read the statement. They want the congregation to be sensitive to these issues. I don't think so. It is wrong and for the church to support this and it is not saying much for the church either. Believe what you want but it is still wrong.
See, I think this is where young peole coming up in the world today think it's alright to be gay. You always hear that crap "They can be born gay"...that is bogus BS. They turn gay because they are brought up being taught that it is ok or "Be sensitive or tolarant" to them.

[dogdoc]

TSB---I have different feeling about a person being "born gay". I have known several men with very feminine personalities and characteristics that leave completely normal heterosexual lives. I wonder if these men ever fight their sexuality??

I also have a hard time believing that God would have a child "born gay". A destiny of pain and according to the bible an eternity in ****. That just doesn't seem something God would do. I wish I could give you an answer---I just can't find one on this issue.

todd

[huntinsonovagun]

This subject gets me fired up! http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif


OK....so "you're born gay," but the bible says we are created in the image of God.....so God is gay???? Think about it...... http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[slugshooter]

[ QUOTE ]
TSB---I have different feeling about a person being "born gay". I have known several men with very feminine personalities and characteristics that leave completely normal heterosexual lives. I wonder if these men ever fight their sexuality??

I also have a hard time believing that God would have a child "born gay". A destiny of pain and according to the bible an eternity in ****. That just doesn't seem something God would do. I wish I could give you an answer---I just can't find one on this issue.

todd

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I believe they are born gay, I know someone who fights it and has not been very successful over the years. My feelings on the subject are this, yes the bible condemns it, but where does Jesus Christ condemn it, he doesn't, most of the condemnation comes from the Apostle Paul, and he wasn't Jesus Christ. Of course, it all comes down to what you believe and if you believe that the bible hasn't been changed since it's inception. I believe it has, early leaders didn't make Christianity the official religion because they were pious God-fearing men, they did it for personal gain, what with the selling of salvation and all, there was a Pope, I can't remember his name cause I don't have the book in front of me, in the early 1000's, can't even remember the time period, anyhoo, he was married, had a child with the mistress, then committed incest with his daughter and had a child with her, all while he got rich off the peasants his cardinals sold salvation to, he wasn't the first and he wasn't the last to use religion for his own gain. I just have a hard time believing that things weren't added to the bible that weren't there in the first place.

[slugshooter]

[ QUOTE ]

OK....so "you're born gay," but the bible says we are created in the image of God.....so God is gay???? Think about it...... http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

It also says that God has no form, he is everywhere. The image of God passage doesn't refer to him looking like us or we like him.

[HuntingInMaine]

[ QUOTE ]
We, who are Christians, welcome the sinner to our church that they may hear the Word of God, be saved, and part from their paths of sin.


[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't everyone a sinner, even the Christians?

This is my opinion on this whole thing. God doesn't rate sin. A sin is a sin. That means that in God's eyes, a lie I told is just as bad as the homosexual act that someone else has committed. With that being said, it doesn't seem fair that the church single out the homosexuals since every member of the congregation is a sinner. I understand that a person who is gay is sinning on a regular basis, but so does everyone else, but they aren't singled out and ostracized because of it (in most cases). God is the only one who is allowed to judge others, so it really isn't any of our business what sins who is committing. God is keeping tract of all that. All we are suppose to do is love each other!

Slugshooter,

I have done a lot of research into the evolution of religion and agree that the bible does not contain the message it originally held. Is the pope you are talking about pope innocent? Sounds a lot like him, but there were a lot of popes around that were like that during that time in history.

[slugshooter]

[ QUOTE ]
Is the pope you are talking about pope innocent? Sounds a lot like him, but there were a lot of popes around that were like that during that time in history.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can't remember, I read about it in the book " A World Lit Only By Fire " excellent book if you get a chance to read it.

[ParrotHead]

[ QUOTE ]
Having said that, I think some of us need to be more tolerant of gays. I'm sure some gays are out there flaunting it and being lascivious, but there's plenty of straights out there like that too. Just because someone's gay doesn't mean they will be out there trying to convert the world or will be pedophiles. There's good and bad gays just like there's good and bad straights.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this to a point.

Myself – I could care less whether you’re in love with a man, woman or anything else that you could possibly have sex with. My belief is that you’ll be judged by a supreme being one day and you and only you will be held accountable for your actions.

Where I go off the deep end on this subject is when we’re forced to “except” them by society, by the media and by the government and when we don’t except them, then we’re labeled as “homophobic” I’m not a homophobic, I’m a middle class, straight white American and have been called a lot worse names other than homophobic but to date this is the only one that really gets under my skin.

We’ve even allowed our judicial system to become biased to these freaks. No matter what the situation, you kick a homo’s **** and you’re brought up on charges of a hate-crime. Sure, I be you hated to have to kick his **** – but does that justify a hate-crime?

Again, I don’t care what you do in your home – just as long as it’s legal and involves adults, just don’t tell me about and don’t expect me to except it because society thinks I need to.

[ParrotHead]

[ QUOTE ]
God doesn't rate sin. A sin is a sin

[/ QUOTE ]

Disagree - There are some sins that you can't be forgiven for - the bible does address these.

But to be honest with you - I don;t know if homosexuality is one them - I'll have to research it and get back with ya.

[Tominator]

[ QUOTE ]
Tominator, I sincerely wish you had a different opinion.
I am sure I will not change your mind and will not try.
I do ask how anyone can make the following comment about interracial relationships:

("Still too much social stigmata in my opinion. I've seen some that work, but in most cases they are socially unacceptable.")

Are you saying that a heterosexual couple is socially unacceptable, but that we should condone, tolerate, and socially accept the behavior of homosexuals?


[/ QUOTE ]

I seem to be whistling in the wind here.

I agree with a lot of what you posted, and it seems Todd and I share a lot of the same feelings, he's just more eloquent than I am.

And, being socially unacceptable is not condemning, it's just my opinion, an opinion that I hold true for homosexual couples too. Yes, I believe homosexual couples are socially unacceptable, of course I do. By definition, anything out of the "norm" is socially unacceptable, there's plenty of things that I consider socially unacceptable. Farting in public is socially unacceptable for crying out loud. I don't condemn either one, I pray for both. My message is still about tolerance and forgiveness.

Unless I can talk to you all face to face or maybe on the phone, I'm done with this topic. Sorry I even got involved. lol. Why do I wander into the political forum--geez. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[wtnhunt]

Looks like I missed a lot in here yesterday afternoon.

[ QUOTE ]
Pretty much what I get out of it is that we are supposed to be sensitive to queers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Got the same thing out of it Mike. What more would you expect from the wonderful home state of John Kerry, LOL. Seriously I am sure it happens every where. With all the frivilous lawsuits now a days and people crying about their feelings getting hurt over this and that, I dont really think the church can not be open to people with "other lifestyles" coming in to worship, however I dont think they should have an attitude that others should be sensitive or accepting to those who engage in such a sin.

I do tend to agree with Chris in that it is not our place to judge those who engage in that type activity or lifestyle, however that does not mean we have to be sensitive or accepting of it either.

[TreeStandBowHunter]

[ QUOTE ]


Well, I believe they are born gay, I know someone who fights it and has not been very successful over the years.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gifDude, your not serious are you http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Oh man, I am LMAO big time. I won't even comment on that.

Dogdoc, I do understand what you are saying and I hope that you do as well. The American Society should not have to be more tolarlant or sensitive to the gay and lesebien(sp) community. I am not talking about going out and beating up every gay person either, I am simply saying that if they want to be gay, that's fine but don't ask the American people to accept it.
And you see, this is the path that we are going down now in todays society. No wonder more and more people are turning gay...it is because they are being taught that it is OK and that people should be more tolarant to the subject.

Slugo....tell that someone that you know who is gay and can't seem to get over it...tell him to come see me and I will make sure he is successful http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I can't believe you said that man. Still LMAO http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[slugshooter]

[ QUOTE ]

http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gifDude, your not serious are you http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Oh man, I am LMAO big time. I won't even comment on that.

And you see, this is the path that we are going down now in todays society. No wonder more and more people are turning gay...it is because they are being taught that it is OK and that people should be more tolarant to the subject.


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't really think it's all that funny. And people don't turn gay, ask a person if one day he woke up and decided to be gay or if he felt like that his whole life and tell me what answer you get. Just because you don't understand it or don't want to doesn't mean it's not the truth.

[TreeStandBowHunter]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gifDude, your not serious are you http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Oh man, I am LMAO big time. I won't even comment on that.

And you see, this is the path that we are going down now in todays society. No wonder more and more people are turning gay...it is because they are being taught that it is OK and that people should be more tolarant to the subject.


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't really think it's all that funny. And people don't turn gay, ask a person if one day he woke up and decided to be gay or if he felt like that his whole life and tell me what answer you get. Just because you don't understand it or don't want to doesn't mean it's not the truth.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gifDude, IT IS FUNNY MAN http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif "He's been fighting it for years and can't seem to get over it" http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Oh my head hurts man from laughing so hard. But you know what, your right slugo, it isin't funny...it's sick. That has to be the most original excuse I have ever heard.

Look, enough about the guy that can't seem to get over it after trying for a long time....we are way off key here now. All I wanted to do was show my family in here that a man can't even take his family to church without having to deal with this. Maybe shotupdeer is right, maybe we will see a gay President someday. I mean everybody else is turning gay around here. Hey, I have an idea...seeing how American Citizens are being told to be more tolarant and sensitive to gays, why not let them just get married in every state and let them adopt kids and everything. Let's allow them to be teachers, principles....yeah, let's allow that. We are on the right path....yeah, straight to poop too http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[wtnhunt]

[ QUOTE ]
Let's allow them to be teachers, principles....yeah, let's allow that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately I am afraid there are likely many out there who are even though you may not know it. Not a matter of allowing, it is happening everywhere. Think the views held by many as what is acceptable is taking a very bad turn. Those who hold the belief that "they can do whatever they want so long as it does not affect me" are in a way ignoring that more and more people are CHOOSING to live this type of lifestyle as it becomes maybe to be viewed as somewhat more acceptable by some people. Bad thing is the more acceptable it seems to become the more likely it is to have an affect on those who chose to ignore it.

I do not buy the crap that people are born gay. Sure there are instincts that may be too much for some people to handle, just like in some animals. For instance we all have probably seen female dogs that will try to dry hump peoples legs or another dog and you see several other natural occurences that might lead you to think that is abnormal behavior, but does that make them gay. Think that is instinct or maybe confusion, those people still have a choice even if they are confused or are having thoughts that go against what we all view as normal. It is knowing that it is wrong and still doing it that is where people seem to have problems. In saying it is acceptable people begin to think it is not wrong , take a look at where that is headed. Anyone has choice in who they chose as a partner to have sex with. Saying you are born that way is nothing more than a cop out imho.

[horst]

sticking to the original subject of churches and gays, I dont think its the churches place to turn anyone away that wants to worship thier.Because someones gay doesnt mean they dont have the right to worship God.

you dont have to like em, and you dont have to be tolerant of them.But the last time I checked freedom of religion applied to everyone.Whats the difference between not gays into a church and not letting blacks into your church?

Off topic, I dont understand gays, Im not real tolerant of them myself, and dont like thier lifestyle much.So dont get the impression Im sticking up for them in anyway.But the only thing that bothers me as much as gays is hypocritical christians who take what they want from the bible and ignore the rest.Like quoting how homosexuality is a sin but they quote nothing about judging others which is what theyre doing.Im not a real good christian myself, to much of what I see going on at the church is contradictory to me.Some of the "best christians' in the church are the worst people youd ever want to meet 6 days a week. If they can attend what the ****, mght as well let the gays in to.

[carbonhunter]

Back to churches...i dont think there going gay I think they have been gay for a long time...look at the number of priests who are caught molesting kids...look at the number of people who work with religious groups who get caught. My opinion its been in the church a long long time, and makes the church look pretty hypocritical.

[SRA]

[ QUOTE ]
Because someones gay doesnt mean they dont have the right to worship God.



[/ QUOTE ]

what?????? that right there folks is what's wrong in america today...... http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif it's starts small and just keeps escalating into more and more problems........

[buckee]

How anyone can put a 20th century writer's accounts of History and knowledge of the truth in scripture, before someone like the apostle Paul, who walked with Jesus, talked with Jesus, was taught by Jesus, and witness his miracles, his death and saw him after he was resurrected, is beyond me.
As far as the Roman Catholic Church goes, during the middle ages and even today, the atrocities that happened then and and since then, are totally inconsistant with God's word. There are many things that the Roman Catholic Church does that is not consistant with the bible...the same bible that they teach from......But that is a whole other topic...LOL
The Roman Catholics were not the first Christian Church.
To say that the Bible was changed and does not contain the same truths that the original texts conveyed, is a pretty bold statement, without giving proof of what was changed.
You can cross reference everything in the bible to prove and understand what something you find confusing means.
The bible even says of itself:
2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,



Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no pleasure in understanding but delights in airing his own opinions

Proverbs 21:16
A man who strays from the path of understanding comes to rest in the company of the dead.

Mark 4:11-13
11He told them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12so that, “ ‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,
and ever hearing but never understanding; otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!’[a]”

13Then Jesus said to them, “Don't you understand this parable? How then will you understand any parable?

How can a homosexual "Turn" from their sin and be forgiven if the church condones what they do, no longer calls it a sin, and hides the truth of God from them. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[buckee]

[ QUOTE ]
But the only thing that bothers me as much as gays is hypocritical christians who take what they want from the bible and ignore the rest.Like quoting how homosexuality is a sin but they quote nothing about judging others which is what theyre doing

[/ QUOTE ]
Is pointing out to someone they are living in sin and need to turn from it, by quoting what God's word has to say about the subject Judging them ???? .....I beg to differ. It is loving them enough to tell them the truth.
When you see your child playing too close to a busy road, do you shout out to them to stay clear and get back home where it's safe or do you just ignore them. Would ignoring them, still be considered loving them in your opinion??
Since when is telling the truth, casting judgment ??

If I was to say, all homosexuals are going to **** and there is no way out and no chance of salvation ... then, I would be judging them,because I would be handing down their sentence, before the fact.

There is hope for homosexuals, in Jesus Christ ...is that judging...I think not.


There is even hope for me, through my faith in Jesus and by his undeserved grace in my own life.

[buckee]

(Off Topic a bit) http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
The aguement:
"I WAS BORN THIS WAY"
Many homosexuals argue that they have not chosen their condition, but that they were born that way, making homosexual behavior natural for them.

But because something was not chosen does not mean it was inborn. Some desires are acquired or strengthened by habituation and conditioning instead of by conscious choice. For example, no one chooses to be an alcoholic, but one can become habituated to alcohol. Just as one can acquire alcoholic desires (by repeatedly becoming intoxicated) without consciously choosing them, so one may acquire homosexual desires (by engaging in homosexual fantasies or behavior) without consciously choosing them.

Since sexual desire is subject to a high degree of cognitive conditioning in humans (there is no biological reason why we find certain scents, forms of dress, or forms of underwear sexually stimulating), it would be most unusual if homosexual desires were not subject to a similar degree of cognitive conditioning.

Even if there is a genetic predisposition toward homosexuality (and studies on this point are inconclusive), the behavior remains unnatural because homosexuality is still not part of the natural design of humanity. It does not make homosexual behavior acceptable; other behaviors are not rendered acceptable simply because there may be a genetic predisposition toward them.

For example, scientific studies suggest some people are born with a hereditary disposition to alcoholism, but no one would argue someone ought to fulfill these inborn urges by becoming an alcoholic. Alcoholism is not an acceptable "lifestyle" any more than homosexuality is.

[horst]

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Because someones gay doesnt mean they dont have the right to worship God.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



what?????? that right there folks is what's wrong in america today...... it's starts small and just keeps escalating into more and more problems........

[/ QUOTE ]

Rax, what is the difference bewtween thier right to freedom of religion and lets say your right to bear arms?Not everyones gay, but not everyone owns guns either, see what Im saying?Either way its a right you have in this country, some choose to use these rights like you owning guns,some think owning guns is immoral and dangerous.If you want to take the freedom to religoin from the gays dont complain when they take your guns away.Its a dangerous road when you start infringing on peoples rights, and you dont know whats gonna be next.

Buckee, slow down bud, I never said you were a hypocrite. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gifNot allowing them into the church would be judging them.How are they gonna see what theyre doing is wrong if they cant go to the one place where its discussed in the bible?I thought thats what the topic was here, homos being welcomed into the church.I reread the posts though and can see where you got the impression I was talking about you, I didnt notice the quotes from the bible earlier in the post LOL.

.

And whats God say about adualtry{SP}? People know its wrong to screw around on their spouses but they do it everyday.If being gay is something you can control, sleeping with your wifes best friend or whoever it is, is definately something you should be able to control.But straight people seem to have no problem violating these rules.Most of you probably havent done this but lorts of straight married people have.So do you all view them the same as gays?Theyre doing the same thing, having sex with people they shouldnt be.Should you be banned from your church if your caught cheating on your wife?Its the same thing, theyre both sins involving sleeping with the wrong person, they can both be considered lifestyle choices, but I bet most of you at least know someone who has cheated on thier spouse.

In my mind I cant see where being a sinner, no matter what the sin, is grounds for being kept away from the church.like I said, you dont have to like em, you dont have to be tolerant of em, but what happens between them and God is thier businuess, and in this country its a freedom granted to everyone.

[buckee]

Sorry Horst, I didn't mean to sound so defensive, but I needed to express myself on that issue that you brought up, simply because many people acuse Christians of Judging people, the minute we open our mouths.
They fail to see the Love that is required to care enough to open your mouth.
just talking in General...forgive me


[ QUOTE ]
And whats God say about adualtry{SP}? People know its wrong to screw around on their spouses but they do it everyday.If being gay is something you can control, sleeping with your wifes best friend or whoever it is, is definately something you should be able to control.But straight people seem to have no problem violating these rules.Most of you probably havent done this but lorts of straight married people have.So do you all view them the same as gays?

[/ QUOTE ]

I view them the same Horst...can't speak for anyone else though .. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Your right ..the whole subject of sexual promiscuity and immorality encompasses a large spectrum of sin in our society today. The Gay issue is the tip of the iceburg. IMO

[slugshooter]

[ QUOTE ]
How anyone can put a 20th century writer's accounts of History and knowledge of the truth in scripture, before someone like the apostle Paul, who walked with Jesus, talked with Jesus, was taught by Jesus, and witness his miracles, his death and saw him after he was resurrected, is beyond me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Buckee, this may be a typo or you may have gotten confused, so forgive me for what I am about to say. I am not sure I can read anything else you type about religion when such a glaring mistake has been made, the Apostle Paul, or Saul, his original name, persecuted Christians, never walked with Jesus, never saw Jesus, never talked to Jesus, never saw him crucified and certainly never saw him resurrected, if you remember, Saul was on his way to Damascus when a "bright light" blinded him and he heard a voice " Saul, why do you persecute me?" Go see Peter or (I can't remember) and he'll give you back your sight. Condensed version, but you get my drift.

[buckee]

Your right slugger...see what happens when you get too jealous...LMBO http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[dogdoc]

Buckee--I think you might have Paul confused with one of the disciples http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[ QUOTE ]
How can a homosexual "Turn" from their sin and be forgiven if the church condones what they do, no longer calls it a sin, and hides the truth of God from them.


[/ QUOTE ]

So True!

[slugshooter]

All this bickering back and forth and low and behold I grew enough points to become a monster. Buckee, let's pick a place to meet so I can try out my new rack in a nice display of dominance so we can try and impress Halle Berry. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[TreeStandBowHunter]

Look, it seems like we are getting off course here. I see nothing wrong with a gay person seeking a church to try and rid of his or her wrong doing. I can also see a church accepting that person. It would be wrong for them not to. BUT AGAIN...as I am beating a dead horse here, the church is SUPPORTING them and telling the congregation to be sensitive to them. End of story. The world is doomed...one way or another. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Maybe I oughta turn gay...I would fit right in up here http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif. Then I can say I was born gay right http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[huntinsonovagun]

[ QUOTE ]
The image of God passage doesn't refer to him looking like us or we like him.

[/ QUOTE ]

What does it refer to then??? http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[horst]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe I oughta turn gay...I would fit right in up here . Then I can say I was born gay right



[/ QUOTE ]

That might be a little to tolerant TSBH, maybe you should look for a happy medium http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[wtnhunt]

[ QUOTE ]
you dont have to like em, and you dont have to be tolerant of them.But the last time I checked freedom of religion applied to everyone.Whats the difference between not gays into a church and not letting blacks into your church?

[/ QUOTE ]
I think Chris is absolutely right here. What is the difference in discriminating by color or by sexual preference it is discriminating just the same. We are not to judge and not allowing those people to worship would be judging them. You dont have to accept or condone the lifestyle, and I dont agree that the church should neccesarily acting a way that seems to be condoning or openly accepting homosexual activity which by the original post by tsbh here it seems that that particular church in my opinion at least is in a way condoning that activity. I think that the church should try to educate those people and should let them know that it is wrong and is not acceptable according to the way the bible reads.
[ QUOTE ]
Im not a real good christian myself, to much of what I see going on at the church is contradictory to me.Some of the "best christians' in the church are the worst people youd ever want to meet 6 days a week. If they can attend what the ****, mght as well let the gays in to.

[/ QUOTE ]
Guess in that respect I am not either. I know what I believe in my heart and mind, a building has no bearing on that. Again I have to agree with what Chris is saying here. Not to come across to be judging anyone, but just my perspective in what I see around here for the most is that the churches we have been are filled with many of those snooty holier than thou people who will cut your throat and stab you in the back screw your wife during the week then smile to your face on Sunday and act like they are "good Christians". We got away from that and do not go to a "church" building at this point, but do still hold very firm beliefs in Christ just the same. I dont understand why one sinner would think they are any better than another just because you do not agree with their lifestyle. That is between them and God, I have no part in it.
[ QUOTE ]
But because something was not chosen does not mean it was inborn. Some desires are acquired or strengthened by habituation and conditioning instead of by conscious choice. For example, no one chooses to be an alcoholic, but one can become habituated to alcohol. Just as one can acquire alcoholic desires (by repeatedly becoming intoxicated) without consciously choosing them, so one may acquire homosexual desires (by engaging in homosexual fantasies or behavior) without consciously choosing them.

[/ QUOTE ]
I do agree with you on this Steve and I do not think they are born that way either as I said before. Instincts and thoughts and what you chose to do with them are controllable. The more society views homosexuality as any less abnormal the more it seems to be growing, things are certainly hewading in the wrong direction all over the world in that respect. The conditioning of society saying "it is ok to come out of the closet" has made the way for more people to think in their minds that it is ok to experiment and next thing you know they think they were born gay because they prefer their own gender for sex partners. To me that is an excuse. We all have the ability to control our urges just like a thief can control their urge not to steal. Making up excuses is not solving anything, but only makig viewed as more normal or acceptable which in turn is making things worse.
[ QUOTE ]
In my mind I cant see where being a sinner, no matter what the sin, is grounds for being kept away from the church.like I said, you dont have to like em, you dont have to be tolerant of em, but what happens between them and God is thier businuess, and in this country its a freedom granted to everyone.

[/ QUOTE ]
Again finding myself agreeing with Chris. Not our place to judge, you cannot lock em out of the churches, but that does not mean you have to like or accept what they are or what they do.

[johnf]

[ QUOTE ]
Because someones gay doesnt mean they dont have the right to worship God.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Rax, what is the difference bewtween thier right to freedom of religion and lets say your right to bear arms?Not everyones gay, but not everyone owns guns either, see what Im saying?Either way its a right you have in this country, some choose to use these rights like you owning guns,some think owning guns is immoral and dangerous.If you want to take the freedom to religoin from the gays dont complain when they take your guns away.Its a dangerous road when you start infringing on peoples rights, and you dont know whats gonna be next.

Buckee, slow down bud, I never said you were a hypocrite. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gifNot allowing them into the church would be judging them.How are they gonna see what theyre doing is wrong if they cant go to the one place where its discussed in the bible?I thought thats what the topic was here, homos being welcomed into the church.I reread the posts though and can see where you got the impression I was talking about you, I didnt notice the quotes from the bible earlier in the post LOL.

.

And whats God say about adualtry{SP}? People know its wrong to screw around on their spouses but they do it everyday.If being gay is something you can control, sleeping with your wifes best friend or whoever it is, is definately something you should be able to control.But straight people seem to have no problem violating these rules.Most of you probably havent done this but lorts of straight married people have.So do you all view them the same as gays?Theyre doing the same thing, having sex with people they shouldnt be.Should you be banned from your church if your caught cheating on your wife?Its the same thing, theyre both sins involving sleeping with the wrong person, they can both be considered lifestyle choices, but I bet most of you at least know someone who has cheated on thier spouse.

In my mind I cant see where being a sinner, no matter what the sin, is grounds for being kept away from the church.like I said, you dont have to like em, you dont have to be tolerant of em, but what happens between them and God is thier businuess, and in this country its a freedom granted to everyone.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think anyone said they did not have the right to worship. What the problem is, is that this church by accepting and welcoming in this way, they are saying that this is a lifestyle that is pleasing to them and to God. It is not.

Do they have the right to worship? Yes, but with joining most denominations you must live within thier moral code.
Take drinking for instance.
Befor I was saved, I drank a lot. After I got saved I stopped drinking as much, but did not stop. When I became a Baptist, I read the churches bylaws. One of them said that they did not drink alcohol. This was the only thing that I did not agree with in thier bylaws, but I decided to join the church anyway. As a member of this church I took it on myself not to drink anymore. Not because I didn't want to, or beacause I thaught it was wrong, (which I still don't), but because as a member of this organization I knew I would be represnting them everywhere I went. What they stood for, so would I.

If a church has a system of beliefs yet does not enforce or teach the beliefs, then what is the point of having church? This is a place where we learn right from wrong. We learn by hearing it and by example. Not by allowing it to go on.

Yes, my church enforces church discipline. When someone is doing something wrong, we (decons) go to them and tell them to stop, we offer counceling both in and out of the church. If the person does not change, they are stripped of all duties in the church. I don't think anyone has been asked by the paster not to come back to the church, but they have been made very unwelcomed by the members.

For instance. We had a decon who was also a school board member who became addicted to pornogrophy. His wife brought the problem to the paster. He was spending much of his income on it and it was causing a financial strain. He was counceled by the paster (I think) and several other decons, but refused to stop. He did not see anything wrong with it. After a few months he was removed from the decon board, his job as a sunday school teacher, he could no longer be a greeter or usher in the church. When they found pornography on his computer at work, he was asked to step down as a school board member. At this time several men felt it was necessary to ask him to find a more liberal place to worship. This was not an offical church group. But no one told them not to. We do not allow people who are openly doing things wrong to work in the church in ANY copacity. Whether it is the preacher or costodian or door greeter.

btw. He goes to the Methodist Church now.

If homosexuals want to be blind to thier sin, then they have that right. Just like a thief, adulturer, liar or any sinner, they have the ability to stop, to turn from thier ways and to be forgiven of their sin. Are there people who have lied, cheated, stolen in my church? Yes, and lots of them. The difference is when you do something wrong, stop, repent and ask for forgiveness, then you are forgiven. With the gay lifestyle, none of this is done because they do no acknowledge that it is a sin.

I think that any preacher who is a Christian and believes in the bible would be convicted to teach against it every time it is brought up. Our precher councels a lot of people who are living in sin every day. Some of them never come to church, but they are taught what is right. As for preacher who do not teach the truth, I don't think they could possibly be a believer and there is a special place in **** for those who lead so many people astray.

btw h e l l, is not a cuss word. It's a real place and if they don't change their ways, they're going to find out.

A church to me is a lot like a club or fraternity with lots of rules and regulations. People learn the history of the club and why those rules are there. If they don't want to follow the rules, they shouldn't join the club.

As for the gun ownership thing. That's just a really bad argument with so many holes I don't have the space to spell them out.

[johnf]

[ QUOTE ]
Again finding myself agreeing with Chris. Not our place to judge, you cannot lock em out of the churches, but that does not mean you have to like or accept what they are or what they do.

[/ QUOTE ]

The bible condems the act and the lifestyle. They have already been judged. A church is not a public building. If you don't like what a church teaches or want to live by thier rules, then don't go to it.

[johnf]

[ QUOTE ]
To say that the Bible was changed and does not contain the same truths that the original texts conveyed, is a pretty bold statement, without giving proof of what was changed.
You can cross reference everything in the bible to prove and understand what something you find confusing means.


[/ QUOTE ]

I belive it is the NKJ version that was recently translated from the origninal Greek, Arabic, and Hebrew thus taking any earlier "misiturpritations" out.

[johnf]

[ QUOTE ]

you dont have to like em, and you dont have to be tolerant of them.But the last time I checked freedom of religion applied to everyone.Whats the difference between not gays into a church and not letting blacks into your church?


[/ QUOTE ]

The difference is God never said being black is an abomination, or that they should be stoned for being black.

I also have the freedom of religion. My religion tells me that I should not be blind to sin, but I should preach against it. The bible (NT) says that we (the men of the church) are obligated to enforce discipline within our church if we see something wrong. To deny this is to deny the truth.

[TreeStandBowHunter]

[ QUOTE ]

The difference is God never said being black is an abomination, or that they should be stoned for being black.

I also have the freedom of religion. My religion tell me that I should not be blind to sin, but I should preach against it. The bible (NT) says that we (the men of the church) are obligated to enforce discipline within our church if we see something wrong. To deny this is to deny the truth.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't say this often but AMEN http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[buckee]

You've been busy johnf http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Some good reading there and I agree...amen

[TreeStandBowHunter]

Well I commend most of you for your opinions on this. A few of you went way off topic and discussed something different from the subject at hand trying to change the story and put words in peoples mouth. I will end with this....The subject church is pretty much saying that if you are gay, they don't care and they want you to attend their church. They are also telling the congregation that they need to be sensitive to the gay community. The thought of a lesbian women teaching my son in Sunday school is stomach turning. This church in my eyes are in the wrong and I won't be any part of it. It is a shame that churches are headed in this direction.

Horst, what is happy medium? http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

They have a lot of mosques up here, maybe I oughta attend one of them. I would love to wipe my feet on their rugs anyway http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[johnf]

[ QUOTE ]
You've been busy johnf http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Some good reading there and I agree...amen

[/ QUOTE ]

My wife hogs the computer a lot. When I do get on here I feel the need to share. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[wtnhunt]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

you dont have to like em, and you dont have to be tolerant of them.But the last time I checked freedom of religion applied to everyone.Whats the difference between not gays into a church and not letting blacks into your church?


[/ QUOTE ]

The difference is God never said being black is an abomination, or that they should be stoned for being black.

I also have the freedom of religion. My religion tells me that I should not be blind to sin, but I should preach against it. The bible (NT) says that we (the men of the church) are obligated to enforce discipline within our church if we see something wrong. To deny this is to deny the truth.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know adultry is sin, do you cast out the adulterer who has come to worship asking for forgiveness from our Lord? Do you cast out the thief or the liar who has come to worship? I got news for you, if you do not allow a person who is a sinner to attend, the churches would not have much in the way of attendance.

I am a sinner, I admit it, all I can do is try my best to live my life without commiting sins and when I do I ask my God for forgiveness. If you judge me based on my sins, I ask my Lord to have pity on your soul. All I can do. I would not expect any church to not allow me in the door because I am a sinner, but that is what you seem to be saying here.

It is NOT our place to close the doors to those who seek God based on how we view them, but at the same time that does not mean we have to accept or condone that persons lifestyle or in any way be SENSITIVE to them based upon their lifestyle.

[horst]

Well in this case a happy medium would be somewhere between turning gay yourself and hunting gays down for sport. http://www.realtree.com/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif