barak obama

[stevebeilgard]

president elect barak obama has been named gun salesman of the year. since his election in november, gun sales have sky rocketed to levels never seen before. how ironic is that???:o

[Adjam5]

I pray we NEVER need our guns, like we think we MAY need them:rolleyes:.
But better to have 'em and not need 'em than to need 'em and not have 'em;).

[ruttinbuc]

Yep, you can read it here....

http://www.shootingwire.com/

[wtnhunt]

I might actually laugh at this Steve, if not for wanting to add a few more guns to my collection one of which I probably will not be able to thanks to the frenzy which has driven prices on the rifle through the roof where you can even find them.

That is a good article too Mike.

[bowhuntnsmycrack]

ya know when i get my taxes back i might just buy me a smith and wesson m&p 15 just for the heck of it... good huntn rifle. KISS MY GLOCK OBAMA

[Countryblk]

Sir, I surely hope that you just DID NOT threaten the life of the President of the United States of America. No matter your personal feelings toward the man, that is completely uncalled for and a reportable offense.

[wtnhunt]

Sir, I surely hope that you just DID NOT threaten the life of the President of the United States of America. No matter your personal feelings toward the man, that is completely uncalled for and a reportable offense.

Welcome to the forums.

You may be reading something in that is not there, looked like the "KISS MY GLOCK" comment was intended as a joke kind of like kiss my hind end.;)

Sometimes helps to use smilies here.:p:D:D

[Texan_Til_I_Die]

Sir, I surely hope that you just DID NOT threaten the life of the President of the United States of America. No matter your personal feelings toward the man, that is completely uncalled for and a reportable offense.How in the world would you construe that from what he posted? :confused:
Are you perchance being hypersensitive on that issue?

BTW - Welcome to the forums. :D

[muggs]

Paranoia is one of the most commonly used tools of propaganists...keep them afraid and they're easy to control. The NRA is well versed in this matter.;)

btw- I checked my cabinet last night...all my guns were still there. That said, I guess an excuse to buy a new gun isn't such a bad thing.

[Adjam5]

Paranoia is one of the most commonly used tools of propaganists...keep them afraid and they're easy to control. The NRA is well versed in this matter.;)

btw- I checked my cabinet last night...all my guns were still there. That said, I guess an excuse to buy a new gun isn't such a bad thing.

Muggs, you still have'nt answered the fact, the your boy has surrounded himself with all the Clinton gun ban people.
Some change...:rolleyes: Tigers don't change their stripes.
Joe Biden, who wrote the original assault weapon ban in 94. Think he is done and forgot about it?That was repealed due to its ineffectiveness at stopping crime. Less than 1/10 of all guns used in crimes were military styled semi auto weapons. (FBI uniform crime report in 2004). Thank God for that sunset provision the the Republicans put in or they would not have passed it.
Eric Holder, attorney general. The Clinton point man for gun control.
Again...some change.
I do hope BHO helps America prosper and proves himself to be a worthwhile president. But everyone around him has a antigun track record that is hard to ignore. Not hysteria...just facts.
I have to give BHO a chance...I have no choice. I just hope you enjoy the crow come time to eat it, if you eat crow I lose.
But if I have to eat the proverbial crow...I win.
I hope I have to eat crow and we do not lose any more gun/ammo rights.
Deal?

[muggs]

Muggs, you still have'nt answered the fact, the your boy has surrounded himself with all the Clinton gun ban people.
Some change...:rolleyes: Tigers don't change their stripes.
Joe Biden, who wrote the original assault weapon ban in 94. Think he is done and forgot about it?That was repealed due to its ineffectiveness at stopping crime. Less than 1/10 of all guns used in crimes were military styled semi auto weapons. (FBI uniform crime report in 2004). Thank God for that sunset provision the the Republicans put in or they would not have passed it.
Eric Holder, attorney general. The Clinton point man for gun control.
Again...some change.
I do hope BHO helps America prosper and proves himself to be a worthwhile president. But everyone around him has a antigun track record that is hard to ignore. Not hysteria...just facts.
I have to give BHO a chance...I have no choice. I just hope you enjoy the crow come time to eat it, if you eat crow I lose.
But if I have to eat the proverbial crow...I win.
I hope I have to eat crow and we do not lose any more gun/ammo rights.
Deal?


Don't get me wrong, I'm not crazy about a lot of his policies (namely his usual dem stance on pro abortion and his voting record on gun control). Actually, I'm for some gun control, I just don't think the way they're going about it is going to accomplish anything but taking the guns out of law abiding citizens hands. I'm also not a Hilary fan at all...needless to say, I actually find it hard to believe anyone is. I'll have you know that I voted for McCain.

That said, I'll believe all this gun hype when I see it. You guys are going ape for no reason. It's not a stretch to say he's got more pressing issues to address, other than supposedly taking our guns away.

That also being said, I have no need for an AR-15. I bow hunt, own a few rifles, a few shotguns and plan to buy my first hand gun in the near future. I have no need for assault rifle...and I hate to break this to you...neither do any of you.

But I'm for Obama now because he has very solid leadership skills, is intelligent, and whether you all want to admit it or not...he's brought hope to our Nation in a time we've needed it.

Bush had some epic challenges to overcome. Not even a year into his Presidency he had to deal with 9/11. But even with taking that into consideration, it was by far the worst administartion I've seen in my lifetime. My main beef is how the Iraqi war was structured from the get-go. Norman Schwartzcoff (spelling??) recommend "X" amount of troops, and the Bush camp choose to send in 1/4 of that strenght. He also spread us too thin on both the fronts. Poorly...poorly handled, not to mention his declaration of victory aboard that aircraft carrier while our boys are still dying over their for what now could very well be in vain.

Bush was not a leader...plain and simple.

So we got our guy in there. Whether you choose to get behind him is up to you. Like it or not, he's there for 4 years...minimum and I'd say you can almost guarantee he'll be there for 8. Be an American, and let's support him and hopefully this boat gets turned around. Sure, things will naturally improve and he'll get the credit, but I also think he has the skill set to do very well.

[wtnhunt]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not crazy about a lot of his policies (namely his usual dem stance on pro abortion and his voting record on gun control). Actually, I'm for some gun control, I just don't think the way they're going about it is going to accomplish anything but taking the guns out of law abiding citizens hands. I'm also not a Hilary fan at all...needless to say, I actually find it hard to believe anyone is. I'll have you know that I voted for McCain.

That said, I'll believe all this gun hype when I see it. You guys are going ape for no reason. It's not a stretch to say he's got more pressing issues to address, other than supposedly taking our guns away.

That also being said, I have no need for an AR-15. I bow hunt, own a few rifles, a few shotguns and plan to buy my first hand gun in the near future. I have no need for assault rifle...and I hate to break this to you...neither do any of you.




Eric, I used to not be all that familiar with the evil black rifles, and also viewed ownership of them similarly to how you do, although I do not recall ever thinking it would be ok for the government to take them away from people who owned them, which whether you will agree or not is a high priority for some dems. May be naive on our parts to think that because there are more important issues that these will not get looked at or acted on.

I have to admit I had my eyes opened a bit thanks to a few people who steered me in the right direction. You might want to look at it a bit differently or with a bit more open mind rather than thinking there is no place for them because you would likely never use one. Consider AR's as semi auto varmint rifle that has accuracy in some cases better than bolt guns, do they then have a place? I purchased my first AR the summer before last, it is a lot of fun to shoot, my kids have shot the gun several times, it is still more economical to shoot than our bolt deer rifles and is great for practice, I like to think all the practice has improved my kids shooting skills. The AR I happen to own will in most cases shoot remanufactured ultramax ammo in 3/4 inch or smaller groups from the bench at 100 yards with me as the shooter and I am not the greatest shot. The gun has been deadly on yotes here, although I have yet to have to have had to fire multiple rounds on yotes with that rifle, it is nice to know that is an option.

You might also want to ask yourself if semi autos are an issue, which to the gun control people most certainly are, then do you really think they want to stop with just the AR's? I think you know better, some semi auto's would quickly follow and those could be guns used for all sorts of hunting from upland game to big game. The thugs murdering people are not legally buying the AR's from dealers anyway, so what purpose does it serve for the government to tell us that these have no place in the publics hands and that we should have no right to own or purchase them? What about self defense, is it not my right to own a semi auto to defend my home from those who do own illegal weapons who will never turn them over?



But I'm for Obama now because he has very solid leadership skills, is intelligent, and whether you all want to admit it or not...he's brought hope to our Nation in a time we've needed it.

Bush had some epic challenges to overcome. Not even a year into his Presidency he had to deal with 9/11. But even with taking that into consideration, it was by far the worst administartion I've seen in my lifetime. My main beef is how the Iraqi war was structured from the get-go. Norman Schwartzcoff (spelling??) recommend "X" amount of troops, and the Bush camp choose to send in 1/4 of that strenght. He also spread us too thin on both the fronts. Poorly...poorly handled, not to mention his declaration of victory aboard that aircraft carrier while our boys are still dying over their for what now could very well be in vain.

Bush was not a leader...plain and simple.

So we got our guy in there. Whether you choose to get behind him is up to you. Like it or not, he's there for 4 years...minimum and I'd say you can almost guarantee he'll be there for 8. Be an American, and let's support him and hopefully this boat gets turned around. Sure, things will naturally improve and he'll get the credit, but I also think he has the skill set to do very well.

Despite his past record I am looking at Obama with an open mind, and I do believe the man has an ability to tell people what he thinks they want to hear(a politician good at his craft imagine that;)) and do it in a way that awes people by the masses. I do agree, hard not to, that he is connecting with certain groups and I think he does have some leadership qualities that will prove vital to the man being able to get anything accomplished, good or bad. Hopefully he does not accomplish too much of what I view as bad and does not cause any irreparable damages.

Another thing to remember here too is that our military had huge cuts under Clinton and we did not have the manpower we should have. I agree that it was a mistake not sending enough troops, shame we did not have the men and women trained ready to go like we used to have.

Bush was not as good a politician as some and that was very apparent, but as president I personally think sometimes it takes someone who is more than just another politician, and I still think Bush will be viewed differently 15-20 years down the road than how so many see him now. He admits he made the unpopular decisions that no one would have wanted to make, I do not envy where he was at one bit. A shame really that so many just don't get that. Whether you like it or not, this country has not had another attack on our soil, I like to think it is because we took the attack to them, think there are more than just a few military folks who agree with that as well. Sure there have been consequences and casualty of war, but the what if's in the event we had instead been complacent might far outweigh the losses we have suffered to date.

[PotashRLS]

I'm for gun control too Muggs, cause if you don't have control, you'll never hit what you are shooting at!

[muggs]

See, that's what I mean...no one needs an AR-15 for "varmit control" William, I'm sorry.

And I'm really surprised you think anyone is going to be able to, in your own words, " it would be ok for the government to take them away from people who owned them." I'll address that in two parts.

1.) I never said I thought it was okay for something like that to happen.
2.) That will never happen.

Do you imagine hoards of Gestapoesqu troops forcing their way into your home and taking your guns? Is that how you imagine Obama and the Dems will accomplish that?:o

Let us remember here guys and gals- we have a Constitutional Amendment granting us this right.

And please, never accuse me of not having an open mind, if anything, let's all I've ever had. Matter of fact, it's so open that I will not allow myself to be swayed into buying the company line of any propoganda machine...like the NRA or whom ever. And for all of you who support and belong to the NRA, I'd recommend that you take a step back and ask yourself "is my best interest their main intention, or am I a pawn?"

[Adjam5]

That also being said, I have no need for an AR-15. I bow hunt, own a few rifles, a few shotguns and plan to buy my first hand gun in the near future. I have no need for assault rifle...and I hate to break this to you...neither do any of you.


Muggs, I enjoy your input. Please do not take anything personal. You make me think and I hope I do the same with my posts:)

So your needs satisfy all of our/my needs or wants?
Spoken like a true democrat. They know what is best for me???
A assault rifle is a fully automatic weapon, those weapons are restricted to ONLY class 3 FFL holders. That term was created by Adolph Hitler. Now, if you are talking about semi auto rifles, that function just like anyone's Remington 7600 or Bennelli. You are judging a weapon just on looks. I don't need that kind of gun? Your kidding me right?:rolleyes:
Less than 1/10 of 1% of all guns used in crimes comprise those types of weapons.(2004 FBI uniform crime report)
What about the simple fact that I am a law abiding American that has done nothing wrong, with freedoms protected under the Constitution? That don't count?
Why fear me owning that type of gun, or even object to ANY law abiding citizen owning one?
Why stop there?...who needs a car that goes over 60 mph?
Or a Hamburger with 2000 calories? Or a $10,000 ring on their finger? Or a 5000sqft home? I can go on...
To make the argument that the Founding fathers did not mean those types of guns when they wrote the 2nd amendment, would mean that the internet should not be protected under the 1st amendment(free speech), because the Founding fathers surely couldn't have conceived the internet either at that time in America.
Fear the government that fears your guns.
The 2nd amendment was placed to guard against Tyranny and preserves ones right to self defense.
I hope your right and I'm wrong on BHO and the gun issue. But as long as there are sportsmen who consent to any type gun ban. Our rights will continued to be whittled away at.
Just ask Jim Zumbo. Remember his mistake? Saying no one should have a AR15? He paid dearly for that statement.
Who did he go to for guidance? Uncle Ted Nugent.;)
Jim Zumbo is back on track now.
Muggs, we must hang together as gun owners or certainly we will all hang alone.

[ruttinbuc]

"is my best interest their main intention, or am I a pawn?"

Seems like you certainly became a pawn of the Obama propaganda machine

[PotashRLS]

That also being said, I have no need for an AR-15. I bow hunt, own a few rifles, a few shotguns and plan to buy my first hand gun in the near future. I have no need for assault rifle...and I hate to break this to you...neither do any of you.


That my friend is where you are wrong. The Constitution you speak of gives us the right to own one. That handgun you intend to buy in the future, I hate to break to you is not "needed" either. You already can't have it in Chicago and New York and others. I thought the Constitution gave us that right, but you seem to forget that it is very obvious the foundation that it was built upon is starting to crumble:(. The reason it is crumbling is because folks like yourself who give them an inch see later on that they took a mile.

Plus, I don't think you'll get very far telling William he doesn't need his AR. Just not a conversation that is winnable.

[wtnhunt]

See, that's what I mean...no one needs an AR-15 for "varmit control" William, I'm sorry.?"

Your opinion and you are entitled to that, hundreds of thousands of law abiding American hunters/gunowners would disagree with you on that topic. I simply suggested when it comes to AR's you might have a bit more open mind, and went on to explain that it is not just AR's that some dems would like to see removed. I deer hunt with bolt guns, have never needed semi auto's, but I do support those who choose to hunt with semi auto's as their right. If we were discussing semi auto rifles such as BAR's or Remington 7400's would those also be ok to ban since according to some probably have no place in hunting, what is the difference other than the appearance? How about semi auto shotguns?

Again, you think if they get their way and ban these guns that they will be fine with that being the end and stop there?

What is it that hangs so many people up on this idea that "noone needs these guns"?

And I'm really surprised you think anyone is going to be able to, in your own words, " it would be ok for the government to take them away from people who owned them." I'll address that in two parts.

1.) I never said I thought it was okay for something like that to happen.
2.) That will never happen.

Do you imagine hoards of Gestapoesqu troops forcing their way into your home and taking your guns? Is that how you imagine Obama and the Dems will accomplish that?:o



No Eric, I do imagine however that through licensing and other mandates that the government could have a better record of who has what, and I do beleive it possible that our government could ask citizens to turn over our weapons or risk becoming criminals. They could make it such a hassle and expense that common everyday law abiding gun owners would have no choice. When legislators want to ammend the constitution to favor their agenda or go against our rights we should not be complacent and think that our rights will never be taken away. Having concerns and expressing those concerns is not a bad thing, sitting back and doing nothing and later crying when you lost your rights is though in my opinion.

Let us remember here guys and gals- we have a Constitutional Amendment granting us this right.

And please, never accuse me of not having an open mind, if anything, let's all I've ever had. Matter of fact, it's so open that I will not allow myself to be swayed into buying the company line of any propoganda machine...

Our constitution that some think is a living breathing document?

Again I never accused you of anything and I want to be perfectly clear on that, I suggested that you may want to look at AR's and the uses of with a bit of an open mind. Had I wanted to say you were not open minded I would have just called you closed minded,:p but I believe you have a pretty open mind, you just have this notion on AR's and are pretty set in your ideas and I think you may benefit from educating yourself on that topic a bit.

As far as the NRA, I had considered joining, and I may catch some flack for saying it, but I am NOT a member.

[Countryblk]

Sorry guys, just wanted to make sure that things weren't getting out of hand with the "Kiss my Glock" comment. You were right. I was being hypersensitive and I apologize. : )However, it did seem to be a personal attack on the President and whether Dem or Republican, I must defend them. Afterall, they do/did lead the Country.
Next issue: since I don't have a vast knowledge of guns at this point, I would have to say in my limited view that the argument presented by both Muggs and Wtnhunter are worth considering. As an Independent, I have to consider both sides of the issue. For instance, can there ever be enough guns for a person who is law abiding and uses them to (a) hunt and purge his or her land from varmits(b) compete in tournaments (c) collecting and (d)most importantly for the defense of family, property and/or Country?
As a novice in the sport and a Sociologist by trade, I'm glad to see the use of data from the UCR (Uniform Crime Report) being presented. However, I might also add that there are people behind the stats. That being said, one must understand CIRCUMSTANCE in every case.
For instance, one night while watching Midway Usa's Defense oriented shows, I contemplated how far it is that I would go to prevent my family or myself from becoming a stat. Would my .38 Taurus be enough to defend us or would the AR 15 suffice? What legal ramifications might come about if a stray were to fly off and hit a neighbor in the act of defending my family? It's easy to be a Monday morning quarterback, but once he leaves the chamber, he has no eyes.
I hope that the Dems do not prevent law abiding citizens from exercising their Constitutional rights. However; one may also ask when is enough, enough?
Fellas: What say you?

[wtnhunt]

That my friend is where you are wrong. The Constitution you speak of gives us the right to own one. That handgun you intend to buy in the future, I hate to break to you is not "needed" either. You already can't have it in Chicago and New York and others. I thought the Constitution gave us that right, but you seem to forget that it is very obvious the foundation that it was built upon is starting to crumble:(. The reason it is crumbling is because folks like yourself who give them an inch see later on that they took a mile.



BINGO. Pretty well hits it square on the head right there, when it comes down to it we live in a time where I guess it could be said that none of us really need any guns, however we do have that right. I am sure that some liberals could make the argument now that none of us need any guns.

[muggs]

Muggs, I enjoy your input. Please do not take anything personal. You make me think and I hope I do the same with my posts:)

So your needs satisfy all of our/my needs or wants?
Spoken like a true democrat. They know what is best for me???
A assault rifle is a fully automatic weapon, those weapons are restricted to ONLY class 3 FFL holders. That term was created by Adolph Hitler. Now, if you are talking about semi auto rifles, that function just like anyone's Remington 7600 or Bennelli. You are judging a weapon just on looks. I don't need that kind of gun? Your kidding me right?:rolleyes:
Less than 1/10 of 1% of all guns used in crimes comprise those types of weapons.(2004 FBI uniform crime report)
What about the simple fact that I am a law abiding American that has done nothing wrong, with freedoms protected under the Constitution? That don't count?
Why fear me owning that type of gun, or even object to ANY law abiding citizen owning one?
Why stop there?...who needs a car that goes over 60 mph?
Or a Hamburger with 2000 calories? Or a $10,000 ring on their finger? Or a 5000sqft home? I can go on...
To make the argument that the Founding fathers did not mean those types of guns when they wrote the 2nd amendment, would mean that the internet should not be protected under the 1st amendment(free speech), because the Founding fathers surely couldn't have conceived the internet either at that time in America.
Fear the government that fears your guns.
The 2nd amendment was placed to guard against Tyranny and preserves ones right to self defense.
I hope your right and I'm wrong on BHO and the gun issue. But as long as there are sportsmen who consent to any type gun ban. Our rights will continued to be whittled away at.
Just ask Jim Zumbo. Remember his mistake? Saying no one should have a AR15? He paid dearly for that statement.
Who did he go to for guidance? Uncle Ted Nugent.;)
Jim Zumbo is back on track now.
Muggs, we must hang together as gun owners or certainly we will all hang alone.


No, I do enjoy your posts. If everyone agreed in life, it would be pretty vanilla and not nearly as interesting.

But, I will ask that you reserve from labeling me, especially as a "typical democrat." I haven't labeled anyone in this post, I only asked that NRA members take a second look at the organization. This type of fear mongering has accomplished two things: 1.) Since gun sales have increased every gun manufacturer has seen more $$ in their collective pockets. 2.) I can assure NRA membership is at an all-time high (if not, close to it) especially considering the fact that they if you agreed to renew your membership while in line at guns shows you were let in free.

I don't think it's illogical to say they've accomplished their mission..or are at the least getting what they've wanted out of their propoganda.

Obama himself has said, in so many words, that the thought of him going after hunters and their firearms is ridiculous. And I am all for protecting our rights.

You can say what you want, but at the end of the day, you can't get around this: show me how and where this is taking place. You can't. All of this paranioa has been generated by (mainly) the NRA with out anything to substantiate their claims.

Go read Obama's gun legislation during his time as a Senator- and by this I don't mean something from an NRA news letter. Try your best to find an unfiltered outlet for this information (good luck with that these days) but the facts may surprise you.

Until I hear an actually proposal of how he's going to come into my home and take my guns, or ban me from owning guns I can hunt with I'll reserve judgement. In the meantime, I hope he strightens out our lack of manufacturing, our economy, and hanldes the future of our Iraqi campaign properly.

[PotashRLS]

With all the CRAP we have had to endure with our mainstream media over the years, you complain about propoganda from the NRA? Thats the pot calling the kettle black and then some!!!! Bottom line is that if we didn't have the NRA and countless other Sportsmen/women organizations in this country, OUR Constitution's 2nd Amendment would have already been "Reinterpretted" and we would most certainly be coming out on the short end.

[muggs]

With all the CRAP we have had to endure with our mainstream media over the years, you complain about propoganda from the NRA? Thats the pot calling the kettle black and then some!!!! Bottom line is that if we didn't have the NRA and countless other Sportsmen/women organizations in this country, OUR Constitution's 2nd Amendment would have already been "Reinterpretted" and we would most certainly be coming out on the short end.

No, if I was a member of the mainstream media and putting out my own propoganda, then that would be "the pot calling the kettle black." But in actuality, I can't stand the media, whether it's spun from the liberal or conservative angle.

I've posted many, many times my thoughts on the media and my distaste for it. As a matter of fact, I'm against any type of social engineering, from anything to that TV ad telling you you need a flat stomach to something more serious, like slander campaigns put out during elections.

Also, judging by your post, it sounds like you're considering the NRA to be opposite from, what you call, "the CRAP we have had to endure with our mainstream media over the years." I challenge you to ask yourself, how is it any different?

Whether you want to admit it or not, the NRA produces some of the most off-base propoganda around. Just because I enjoy owning guns and participating in the outdoors doesn't mean I'll blindly follow it. I think for myself, and if I really thought the NRA was doing anything to benefit my interests I'd definitely support.

[Adjam5]

Muggs...Do you remember what happened to Jim Zumbo a few years ago? Would you consider him a ethical, well rounded accomplished sportsman? I do.
He made the gaffe in his blog on how the AR15 is not needed by hunters and no one should have them. He was vilified by Field N Stream and dropped from their payroll and he lost many other sponsors over his comments. There also was a outcry from gun owners and a lynching almost took place. Since then, he has been converted and is now an owner of a EVIL black rifle and supports them to the fullest.
I agree, they may not come knockin' on my door for my guns yet, they just have to use the stroke of a pen to make law abiding gun owners criminals. Like they did in NJ in 1992.
You are right about the media and many outlets being biased. But as a gun owner, and evil black rifle owner, I will support whatever supports me. I think more along the lines of the NRA than the Rainbow coalition. I tend to believe in people/organizations I agree with. Maybe that's just me:rolleyes:.
NY has had it share of anti gun bills and we are still limited to 10 round magazines and have to jump through incredible hoops to get a pistol permit. Maybe you have not seen gun control 1st hand, I have and know its evils. My Uncle in NJ owned a evil black rifle, and Senator Frank Lautenberg with a stroke of a pen, said he had to turn it in to the police, destroy it and offer proof of such or remove it from the state.
When that happens to your area , you might change your mind about certain issues. Because that DID happen and gave people of that state many reasons to fear the gun grabbers.

I hope BHO makes good on his promise as President and I pray he should be behind the Constitution 100% and not try to alter or change it any way shape or form.

[Gator]

Muggs, what gives you, or anyone else to tell me what I can or can't own, or even have the need for? That would be like telling you you don't have any reason for a car, with the availabilty of public transportation. But unlike a car, which is basically a privilege, owning a gun, is a right under the Second Amendment.

[muggs]

Muggs, what gives you, or anyone else to tell me what I can or can't own, or even have the need for? That would be like telling you you don't have any reason for a car, with the availabilty of public transportation. But unlike a car, which is basically a privilege, owning a gun, is a right under the Second Amendment.


I see where you're coming from and this is by far the best agruement you can make for supporting the right to own a fully automatic weapon. I'm all for holding up the Constiution and not bending it what so ever. From that respect, I agree with you.

But I'm arguing that since we do have the 2nd Amendment in place, we have nothing to worry about. Will they make future sales of an AR-15 illegal...maybe, am I okay with that, yeah. This also wouldn't be the first time they've bent the Constitution (Patriot Act, several cases of impeding a persons right to free speech etc... etc...) and I have a much bigger issue with those instances.

You can argue to me all day that the average citizen may need a fully automatic weapon, but they don't. You can make the car or cheesburger analogies, but at the end of the day, soliders go to war armed with fully automatic weaspons, not cars or cheeseburgers and there's a reason for that. The everyday citizen doesn't need access to one. I'd like to meet the freakign gohper that needs an AR-15 to keep him under control.

Should we have the right to do as we choose, of course. But again, we're afforded rights here in the US that the majority of the world is not luckily enough to experience. If I can still take out the old Remington 870 and hunt with that, all while knowing I no longer have the right to own an AR-15...I can live with it.

We're starring a huge national deficit and debt, along with a very sluggish economy directly in the face...and you guys here are going ape over an AR-15 with no substantial proof that that right is even going to be taken away.

Just seems like this paranoia is a little disguided and unnessary...but I guess we should give the NRA credit for getting you guys to follow their agenda- however false it may be.

[wtnhunt]

I see where you're coming from and this is by far the best agruement you can make for supporting the right to own a fully automatic weapon. I'm all for holding up the Constiution and not bending it what so ever. From that respect, I agree with you.

But I'm arguing that since we do have the 2nd Amendment in place, we have nothing to worry about. Will they make future sales of an AR-15 illegal...maybe, am I okay with that, yeah. This also wouldn't be the first time they've bent the Constitution (Patriot Act, several cases of impeding a persons right to free speech etc... etc...) and I have a much bigger issue with those instances.

You can argue to me all day that the average citizen may need a fully automatic weapon, but they don't. You can make the car or cheesburger analogies, but at the end of the day, soliders go to war armed with fully automatic weaspons, not cars or cheeseburgers and there's a reason for that. The everyday citizen doesn't need access to one. I'd like to meet the freakign gohper that needs an AR-15 to keep him under control.

Should we have the right to do as we choose, of course. But again, we're afforded rights here in the US that the majority of the world is not luckily enough to experience. If I can still take out the old Remington 870 and hunt with that, all while knowing I no longer have the right to own an AR-15...I can live with it.

We're starring a huge national deficit and debt, along with a very sluggish economy directly in the face...and you guys here are going ape over an AR-15 with no substantial proof that that right is even going to be taken away.

Just seems like this paranoia is a little disguided and unnessary...but I guess we should give the NRA credit for getting you guys to follow their agenda- however false it may be.

See Eric, this is just it buddy, the AR's that are in the public's hands are not full auto. You cannot get a full auto weapon legally without a class 3 ffl license.

[Adjam5]

Muggs you are information deficient here.
An AR-15 is NOT a fully automatic weapon. The M16 is.
It requires a trigger pull for each round fired...I guess you did not read my previous post when I explained what an AR15 is.
A semi automatic rifle, just like the Remington 7400 or the Bennelli Shotgun. ONLY class 3 Federal Firearms dealers and Class 3 License holders can own fully automatic firearms and that is not what we are talking about. Machine guns, pen guns, cane guns and short barreled weapons( rifles with barrels less that 16 1/4") were regulated in the Gun Control act of 1934. Yes 1934.

The AR15 is only being criminalized by the way it looks.
Our military does NOT use AR15's

"I'd like to meet the freakin gohper that needs an AR-15 to keep him under control."
Haven't you ever seen Caddyshack:D

Seriously Muggs, now that you know the truth about the AR15 does it change your mind now?
It is NOT a machine gun. You really think this puke lib state of NY I live in, would let us have machine guns?
One shot per pull of the trigger.
ATFE should be a convienence store, not a Gov't agency.

For you Muggs. Putting a face to the posts.:D
Now do I look scary? Maybe ugly, but not scary:p
Nothing in my hands is a machine gun. NY legal.
One trigger pull per round fired. They may look like military weapons, they are not. But if we base all of our decisions on looks then who is playing into hysteria?
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a100/ADjam5/042.jpg

[wtnhunt]

Contemplated posting pics too Anthony, don't know if it will help.

But guess a few more pics of the bad black guns could not hurt.

My middle daughter, she was 6 in this pic.
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m149/wtnhunt/nicoleshootingAR.jpg
My oldest daughter 12, she has killed a couple deer, and she loves shooting the AR, she would burn up a couple boxes of shells practicing in a couple hours if I would let her.
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m149/wtnhunt/christinashootingAR.jpg?t=1232741230 (http://javascript<b></b>:void(0);)

[PotashRLS]

Contemplated posting pics too Anthony, don't know if it will help.

But guess a few more pics of the bad black guns could not hurt.

My middle daughter, she was 6 in this pic.
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m149/wtnhunt/nicoleshootingAR.jpg
My oldest daughter 12, she has killed a couple deer, and she loves shooting the AR, she would burn up a couple boxes of shells practicing in a couple hours if I would let her.
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m149/wtnhunt/christinashootingAR.jpg?t=1232741230 (http://javascript<b></b>:void(0);)


Nice:) Thats our future right there! Keep em shootin.

[stevebeilgard]

now those are my kind of kids. good post.

muggs, i'm against anyone telling me what i can shoot any animal with. if i want to shoot a coyote with an ar15, good for me. if i want to use my daisy bb gun, so be it. i don't need anyone telling me what to shoot with.

next summer, a group of seals is coming to hunt prairie dogs (about the size of a squirrel) on the ranch where i get my elk. they want no shot under 1 mile. no problem. they'll be shooting 50 cal's. i said prairie dogs. let folks shoot what they want to shoot, without someone telling them what to use. i think i'll have some fun just watching. maybe one of them will be dumb enough to let me take a shot.

finally, your 870 may soon be an illegal gun. the proposed law read "any gun capable of being altered to hold more than 3 rounds...." just remove the plug in your 870, and you have an illegal gun. actually, just the fact that you CAN remove the plug makes it illegal. good thing we had the NRA in place to stop that bill. i think we'll see generous amounts of future bills, each one designed to take away one small freedom with a total effect of taking all our rights of the second ammenment away. time will tell.

[ruttinbuc]

It only takes one domino to get it started.....the first one falls the rest are sure to follow...

[ruttinbuc]

Looks are deceiving....

[turningcustomcalls]

Well it goes back to the basics- The Human Heart. Long before Ar-15's people who wanted to enact vingance and harm upon people found ways to do it. Cain did not use an Ar-15.

The truth is drug pushers, burglers, and thuggs will get there hands on the weapons they want reguardless of legislation. If they need the weapon to do there dirty deeds they will get it no matter the cost.

I personally don't have a need for an AR but would like to own one. I think they are sharp looking guns and would enjoy shooting it. All stricter legislation does is make it harder for honest people to enjoy the sport of shooting.

Liberals have always made issues with Gun owners because there a easy target. (No pun intended). More legislation is not the answer. The answer is personal responsibility. Something the left knows little about.

[Adjam5]

Looks are deceiving....

Very good Mike...Very good.

[nativetexan]

I cannot believe that someone would be so foolish to come on here and proceed to tell me what I can and can't, or should or should not, have. This has turned into someone's personal agenda and their underlying desire to control. Their desire to control the American agenda and decide from afar what is best for everyone, when they have not met and barely know who they are attempting to pass judgement on.

Muggs, I don't care what you think I need. Need has nothing to do with it. I've seen the same argument over and over again and honestly you do not control what I need or want. I do. Furthermore, this AR-15 argument has been beaten to death and I have grown tired of showing facts over and over to those who choose to ignore them.

You say the NRA is a propaganda machine. It is what it is. But there are two types of propaganda. Good and bad. I would place the NRA on the good side, and those groups of people who are content with the idea of being able to tell Americans what they need or want, on the bad side. The propaganda is equal.

My suggestion to you is to mature a little and leave the "I just checked my gun cabinet and they are still there" remarks to be said elsewhere. Honestly, I find it boring an uneducated to the facts. If it were me, I would get my head out of the gun cabinet and into the books.

Just to give you one little example of how your narrow mindedness plays in here, the "gestapo style gun confiscation" and the lack of it happening is untrue. It has happened already. One might check the case of gun owners against Mayor Ray Nagin and his Chief of Police.

In summary, you will not tell me what I need, and I would never be so pompous to tell you what you "need."

[Ohiobucks]

Well said nativetexan. :cool:

[Tominator]

Y'all are playing right into muggsy's hand, LOL. :D

[Adjam5]

Maybe Chris...But some people REFUSE to look at facts. Misinformed "sportsmen" will sell us all down the river.
Maybe John Kerry WAS really a hunter after all:rolleyes:.
We must hang together or certainly we will all hang alone.
Sound familiar?

[m gardner]

When the 2nd amendment was originally written most folks had the finest in military weaponry available at the time. I still believe that it's okay today. What you need to keep in mind is that training and tactics is the deciding factor in most fights. I know that last I knew some countries actually sent you home with your battlerifle and gear after your required military service. I think one of them was Sweden. I'm sure the Israelis have their weapons too. We would be a true world power if we had the same attitude instead of being afraid of having our citizens armed. I'm sure the founding fathers had this in mind. As for Obama. There's going to be alot of disappointed people when they find he really can't fix this mess and that they have been robbed of the bailout money and need to work hard to pay it back. He promised too much. As for my gun purchases. I am carrying a new pistol now for the first time in a long time not because of the presidential choice but because of the rise in crime here from the bad economy. I live in a 55 plus neighborhood and I guess it looks easy to rob us. The 80 to 90 year olds are terrified but there's no way to effectively stop it. Lots of illegals and others just out of work and out of easy options.
Mark

[goodnottygy]

Muggs... the bottom line is, every gun law that is passed only affects law abiding citizens. I do not own a AR-15, but I should be able to. The "scary" black semi-autos are my right to own. If you give an inch on the cosmetics of a rifle, that function the same as a semi-auto hunting gun, then the semi-auto hunting gun, will be next. An AR-15 is not any different than a Mini-14, Remington, Ruger 10-22, accept in appearence. I know plenty of farmers and other law abiding citizens with them and use them on coyotes. If you were asking many people what they thought an assault rifle was, they think they are machine guns.... including ignorant congressmen. We already have plenty of laws in place for machine guns, but they don't stop there. Next, it is semi-autos. Sorry, but we need no more gun restrictions on law abiding people....criminals could give a rats a** what the laws are!

[ruttinbuc]

Here you go: Ask the British

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE&eurl=http://us.mc526.mail.yahoo.com/mc/showMessage;_ylt=ApGBOtMwt.A6d_xSHuPK6Bdjk70X?mid= 1_84276_ANUwvs4AAAw8SX0eAQaE40Z3nX

[goodnottygy]

that is a great video... send it on through email, like I did. Wake up America!

[Adjam5]

Chew on this one BOYS...It don't look good.
Hey...Where is Muggs? I want to see him spin this one.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,289373,00.html

[stevebeilgard]

Chew on this one BOYS...It don't look good.
Hey...Where is Muggs? I want to see him spin this one.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,289373,00.html


in fact, where are ANY of our Sportsman for Obama folks. i think the honeymoon is about over. time for years of reality. :o:(

[PotashRLS]

in fact, where are ANY of our Sportsman for Obama folks. i think the honeymoon is about over. time for years of reality. :o:(

Probably sticking to the Sports Room. Opinions fit better there.

[stevebeilgard]

Y'all are playing right into muggsy's hand, LOL. :D

even muggsy isn't answering the brittish post...:o. or most of the others.

[Adjam5]

even muggsy isn't answering the brittish post...:o. or most of the others.

So we will take the high road and not taunt...even though a little taunting is in order... I had to go there:D