Sighting-in frustrations!!!! Need load suggestion

[VTbowman]

I shot everything I had yesterday and was not able to get a group smaller then 7" to 8" at 100 yards.
I was using 2 different sabots and 2 or 3 pellet combonations..
I am shooting a Remington 700ML with a Redfield 3x9x40 scope, factory #11 nipple, and Pyrodex 50/50 pellets.
(Which btw worked flawlessly on every shot.)

Heres the combos I tried:
T/C Mag Express 240g sabots with 100g pellets.
T/C Mag Express 240g sabots with 150g pellets.
Hornady XTP 300g sabots with 100g pellets.
Hornady XTP 300g sabots with 150g pellets.

I am thinking of trying the Power Belts but not sure. I do not know anyone who has used them to ask.
I also want to go to a Musket caps but may stick with the #11's again this year.

Just not sure if the sabot is a good load for my gun... (???)
Are there any other loads and combos I should try out of this specific gun??? If so, please let me know.
Money is tight so I can not afford to buy 6 different loads and 5 boxes of powder...

[VTbowman]

Some additional info.
I was shooting off an Outers:Varminter Rifle Rest, on a level sturty table set on concrete.
(The wife was not home, so out of my garage... )

I was running a spit patch and then dry patch down the bore after every shot.
The weather was cloudy and damp 40*F. Little breeze but nothing I was concerned about.
The gun is 6 years old and seasoned with bore butter but I have not used it in the last 3 years or so.
It gets cleaned throughly after being on the bench.

I see a lot of people like to shoot with fouled bores.
Am I screwing myself by cleaning to often during sightin-in?
I personally feel a cleaner bore is better so I try to be consistant as far as that is concerned.
Not sparkling clean but not cruddy either...
The end of the season before summer storage I give it a massive cleaning...

[ZooBear]

Check the scope and make sure its tight. Clean the bore of all borebutter, it doesnt work well with sabots. Make sure your bore cleaner works on plastic.
If the scope is ok and the bore is spotless then go to work on your loads.
I would stick to 100 grns and find which sabot combo works the best then fine tune your powder charge.
Good luck!

[RandyWakeman]

A Buffalo SSB 375 gr., with 90 gr. loose powder.

If money is indeed tight, you can save a lot of it by using loose powder vs. pellets.

[popgun]

VT I also have the same rifle and mine works great with 2 Pyrodex 50 pellets. However I use the Hornady 240 gr. XTP. I think the rifle is perfect for the Sabot. I run a dry mop through mine between shots on the range and nothing between shots if I'm in the field.
My suggestion would be to clean the barrel good with a plastic removing solvent, and be sure you are loading the pellets with the dark end towards the primer. Don't crush the pellets when you load your bullet and sabot, but be sure to get the bullet and sabot seated in good (don't leave any space between the sabot and the powder pellets.) I don't use anything over the 100 gr. (How old are your Pyrodex pellets?) Try reducing the bullet weight to the 240 gr with 2 50/50 Pyrodex and see if the accuracy returns. Make sure you are shooting the Hornady 44-240 gr bullets #6720 w/supplied green sabots. Good luck.......popgun

[David_218]

Try using 90 grains (Volume) of Pyrodex RS "Loose" and a .452" 250 grain Hornady XTP bullet in sabot. I've never had any luck or accuracy using the pellets

[VTbowman]

I have not used the bore butter in 3 years so I know its not still in there. I scrub the crap outa my ML every season so I know I do not have long term build-up of anything. I scope the bore to check for clean not just run patches down until they come out clean. Although I am just using Hoppes #9 solvent. Not sure about it being good for copper or plastic. I would think with a sabot, you would not have to worry about copper fouling.. (???) Nevertheless, I use a bore brush a lot, not just patches.
I scrub it!

I did have a decent build of of crud ring right where the pellets seat but not beyond that.
In short, the rifling is spic and span...

I used both 100 grains and 150 grains worth of pellets with 2 different sabots and did not notice any change.
I may get some of the 30 grain pellets to mix and match with the 50 grainers... May its just a matter of finding the exact power charge.

I do NOT want to mess around with loose powder. Just my preference on that.
I had tried loose when I 1st got the gun and hated it. I did not have any better luck with accuracy with loose either.
I like the pellets better.

I do like the 240 or 250 grain sabots over the heavier ones. I think 300 grain or higher just has to much arc to them. I started out with 300's, and when I was "close" at 100 yards, I was like 6 to 8 inches high at 50 yards.
With most of my shots under 100 yards on deer I did not like that much arc or difference. I still may have a bunch of shot between 100 and 150 yards so I need a hotter load. Something that shoots a bit flatter if possible.
Thats why I am trying out 150 grains worth of pellets this season.

I suppose I just need a few suggestions on which loads.

I see Power Belts are not a popular load anylonger. I also see Prescission Rifle QT40's are being used a lot. Is that a good load for the Remingtons?
How much powder? (Pellets-mind you)
Oh and I am aware of the pistol powder end on these pellets and which end to put in 1st, and to not have the put together.
Thanks!

[borch]

Well there are a lot of guys using power belts. I'm one. They shoot very nice groups(2" at 100 yards) in my gun with 100 gr of 777 pellets and the 295 hp powerbelt. Plus they are devastating on deer.

My gun didn't like them with the Pyrodex pellets(10" groups at 100 yards).

Every gun is different though. Loose powder is cheaper and gives you move flexibility. But if the pellets work for you they are more convenient to use.

The Hornady XTP 300 gr. shot ok in my gun but were a real chore to stuff down the barrel. Especially after a few shots, even with swabbing between. But every gun is different including the actual bore size.

Good Luck!

Borch

[brad dryden]

Power belts are nice I use the arrow type bullits they work good go with those and see what happens.

[AJ]

Some guns like to be broken in before they settle down. My older Black Diamond had to have most of a pound of powder through it before it started grouping well.

Shoot from a bare bore with sabots. No bore butter, or other seasonings.

Seat the bullet in the sabot firmly before putting it in the barrel. Sometimes the bullet can move or be angled and this will induce yaw when fired.

I use a loading guide for my ramrod. It goes in the barrel and guides the ramrod down the center and it keeps the rod from rubbing against the crown.

Every so often, use some plastic remover in the bore to remove all plastic fouling that has built up. You may think its clean, but it can still be built up in the corners of the grooves.

When swabbing between shots just remove enough fouling to have a consistant feel when running a patch down the barrel. I take the spit patch down and short stroke by the crud ring (where powder is ignited) and remove. Then dry patch and shoot again. Some fouling is good, too little or too much can be bad for groups. Make it feel constistant from breech to muzzle before loading.

[wtnhunt]

I shoot loose powder, pyro, and the 240 grain tc xtp mags. Shooting 120 grains of powder seems to give me my best results. The black diamond I am shooting out of the package with open sights shot 3 connecting shots at 85 yards with open sights all high, no cleaning just a spit patch.

After a good thorough cleaning my first shot shooting the pyro is almost always off, then my groups tighten back up running spit patches between shots.

[VTbowman]

Definately spit patch then dry patch after every shot just not for squeeky clean. Just run it down and out once not several times. Just enough to knock out the real heavy fouling stuff. Leaving a bore somewhat fouled helps seal the bullet/sabot in the bore better. Less gases can escape.

Once done on the range for the day I would try and keep it as close to practice "clean" as you did while sighting in. This will keep the gun as close to consistant as possible. Only after the season is over would I give it a real good scrub down...

I asked about "bore butter" last year on here and it was the consenses that its crap.
I know you'll get a few different opinions on that but with sabots it is not worth the money...
JMO
I have decide to try a polymer tip bullet vs a hollow point and stay with either 100g or 150g Pyrodex pellets. Power belts and ShockWaves, I think.
My co-work and I are going in 1/2's on about 5 different sabots to test them out.
Good Luck

[VTbowman]

UPDATE:
Well I tried the PowerBelts and they sucked. They felt so loose going down the barrel that I just knew they were not going to shot well. Even after 4 shots and no cleaning they still almost just dropped in. At 50 yards I was all over the paper.
And YES they were the right ones.. LOL

I then tried the ShockWaves and they went down the barrel real hard!
I was afraid I was gonna bend my ram rod in 2.
Nevertheless they did shoot better.
However, sadly I found out I can not shoot 150 grains of pellets. The gun prefers just 100 grains.

I was getting 1.5" groups at 100 yards with 100g of Pyrodex pellets and the 250g ShockWaves. Spit patch and dry patch between shots too.
I finally found what my ML wants...
Thats more like it!!!

[gt2003]

Ahhh, gentlemen, don't overlook the Precision Rifle bullets. www.prbullet.com

[VTbowman]

I am gonna try the PR's next year. I found out about them just to late to be able to afford them and have them shipped.