need some opinions

**whitetailkiller** · 10-12-2006, 08:27 PM

i have a cva buckhorn 50 cal ..... some guy told me for the short shots i will probably take next saturday(the 21st) , that i should use 280 grain sabots...could i get away with a 240 grain sabot, or could the bullet go through too clean? i had i guy tell me he took a shot with a 30/30 at 25 yards and it went through so clean that it clotted up and the deer never died!! is it even possible for that to happen? i need help guys...please

**johnf** · 10-12-2006, 08:52 PM

Some people shoot deer with 55gr bullet out of a 223. Any bullet designed to come out of that gun will take down a deer. If a bulltet went through a deer and it "clotteed up" it was probibly gut shot or vitals were completely missed.

I would almost bet that any deer shot through the bread basket with a clean passthrough and a good bullet is going to died before any clotting goes on. Every deer that I've shot that I had a pass through dropped in 30 yards or less.

The only time I think that would be different is possibly with a very small very fast fmj bullet.

**Jeramie** · 10-13-2006, 07:36 AM

Dont buy that! Most ML'er bullets look like flying ash trays which means they will have good expansion. At short ranges you're not worried about energy but the expansion part of it. If you're using even a moderate bullet that deer wont stand a chance.

Thats sort of the same debate between a mag and standard cartridge, The deer really doesn't care which one blows through it......

The only time you have to worry about a bullet blowing through an animal with poor expansion is using the wrong bullet selection for the hunt (typically with modern fire arms, not ml'ers).

If you shoot a deer with a Full Metal Jacket you're not going to get good expansion thus prolonging the death of the deer. If you punch a hole with something such as a 7.62fmj out of an assault rifle, chances are that deer is still going to die but due to lack of expansion (shock, damage) it will take longer. If you shoot a deer with a bullet designed for Elk there is a slight chance that the expansion will not be as good because that bullet is actually designed to penetrate thicker skin and heavier muscle prompting a solid expansion.

Deer rounds (again, for modern rifles) are made to expand much quicker for deer. They have much lighter hides and muscle then elk. Heading the other direction with this. That is why you never hunt a large animal with varmint loads. They are made to rapidly expand or frag on impact meaning the animal will receive surface damage and you'll never get a good kill. Each bullet for Modern guns are designed for a certain purpose.

In the realm of Ml'ers that really isn't an issue. Again, look at the bullet, they look like flying ashtrays. Just about any hollow point bullet will have great expansion. A ML'er bullet, weighing in at 240grn, is still far heavier then the majority of rifle bullets. With good expansion and the energy off that heavy of a bullet, a 240grn bullet will be deadly even up close. About anything you buy off the shelf will expand and going to a heavier bullet will not increase the kill at close ranges....

I hope that helps.

**Jeramie** · 10-13-2006, 07:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i had i guy tell me he took a shot with a 30/30 at 25 yards and it went through so clean that it clotted up and the deer never died!! is it even possible for that to happen?

[/ QUOTE ]

The deer died, he just didnt see it. There are several things that could have happend here. If he shot the deer to far back the intestine can often plug the hole keeping the deer from bleeding out (leaving a trail). That doesnt mean the deer didnt die, it means the deer ran off and died out of sight.

Also, what bullet was he using? That makes a huge difference. If he would have been using something as simple as a SuperX (Winchester) or Corelokt (Remington) he would have gotten good expansion at pretty much any range and that deer would have been dead, saying he made a good shot. I know a lot of manufacturers make cheap target bullets for many different cals. They are made to hit a target not kill game. Honestly I dont know if target rounds are made for the 30/30 but Id bet they are. That cal has been around for a LONG time. They make target rounds for so many others (.223, .243, .260, 270, .308, .30-06, etc) that id bet my front eye teeth that someone makes those rounds for the old 30/30. They are tyically much cheaper so if he opted to save about $4 on a box he could have thrown a targe load at a deer which wouldnt have had good expansion. Just my $.02......

Look at these pics and notice that most bullets with good expansion are lighter (Hornady and precision bullet). This was from Precisions website. Take a look at the expansion of the light Hornady and the light Precision bullet.

**whitetailkiller** · 10-13-2006, 12:22 PM

thanx guys i didn't think it would matter but i'm new to muzzleloading and wanted to either confirm or debunk the statements i posted!!!! thanx again guys!!