Cleveland Has Another Hasbeen

[Tominator]

Well, not officially yet, but close to a 3 year deal with Trevor Hoffman from San Diego.

Yo Cleveland front office--He was good 10 years ago, now he wants a fat check and will be on the DL in May. Wise up!



I love Cleveland teams.

[MCH]

Honestly, I'm glad he's out of our division. The guy can still sling some heat.

[muggs]

Guy had 40+ saves last year Chris. The washed up guy is Wickman and he's out.

Cleveland front office has the GM of the Year running the show their bud, he's not the problem.

[Tominator]

[ QUOTE ]
Guy had 40+ saves last year Chris. The washed up guy is Wickman and he's out.

Cleveland front office has the GM of the Year running the show their bud, he's not the problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

You saying you want to make another bet against history?

If we sign him, I'll bet you he goes on the DL for an extended period of time at least once during his contract, which is reported to be 3 years.

This move is classic Indians/Cleveland move. Don't sign the proven people (Thome, Manny, Omar, Burnitz, et. al.), and go for the old guys that have done it in the past.

Classic.

Getting tired of it.

[muggs]

Come on Chris, are you saying the deals Manny and Thome got were good deals??? Good for ManRam and Thome...that's it.

Both those clowns seriously ripped off the Phillies and Red Sox's. Sure Manny's one of the best natural hitters I've ever seen, but look at the BoSox with him now. He's not even happy there, but they can't trade him because of his huge salary. And Thome's washed up now. I think not signing them was a great, great move by a savy GM.

Not to mention, Manny's from his own planet, and a guy like that is not good in the clubhouse, especially around developing players.

Everyone moaned when we traded Bartolo Colon, but we got a future with Sizemore, Lee, and Phillips.

I don't question Shapiro's moves at all, he's good. Now take a look at a GM like Cashman with the Yanks, the dude just throws money around....and get's burned 50% of the time (Jaret Wright, Pavano etc...)

What we need here in Cleveland is positive thinking Chris BELIEVE IT!!!

[MCH]

Barring a major injury like you mentioned, Hoffman is one heck of an addition. The guy has saved 30 or more games almost every year he's been a closer. He's been a thorn in the side of the Dodgers for years now. He saved 43 games last year on a team that finished close to .500.

[RDNKHNTR77]

like i said before chris, u just gotta have faith

[Tominator]

[ QUOTE ]
Come on Chris, are you saying the deals Manny and Thome got were good deals??? Good for ManRam and Thome...that's it.

Both those clowns seriously ripped off the Phillies and Red Sox's. Sure Manny's one of the best natural hitters I've ever seen, but look at the BoSox with him now. He's not even happy there, but they can't trade him because of his huge salary. And Thome's washed up now. I think not signing them was a great, great move by a savy GM.

Not to mention, Manny's from his own planet, and a guy like that is not good in the clubhouse, especially around developing players.

Everyone moaned when we traded Bartolo Colon, but we got a future with Sizemore, Lee, and Phillips.

I don't question Shapiro's moves at all, he's good. Now take a look at a GM like Cashman with the Yanks, the dude just throws money around....and get's burned 50% of the time (Jaret Wright, Pavano etc...)

What we need here in Cleveland is positive thinking Chris BELIEVE IT!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm saying Cleveland develops great talent, and then won't resign them when it comes to free agent time, and the free agents they do sign are past their prime. Believe that, and go back in history and look it up.

Faith? Faith, 1945, that's faith.

Oh, and BTW--sure Boston has a headache with Manny, but they also have a little diamond ring.

[Tominator]

[ QUOTE ]
Barring a major injury like you mentioned, Hoffman is one heck of an addition. The guy has saved 30 or more games almost every year he's been a closer. He's been a thorn in the side of the Dodgers for years now. He saved 43 games last year on a team that finished close to .500.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wickman: 154 saves in the last 6 years with an ERA of 3.34 over that span for $2.5 mill. last year.

Hoffman: 208 saves in the last 6 years (includes one year of sitting out the whole year for injury, hint, hint), with an ERA of 2.88 over that span for $5 mill last year. Oh, and oh yeah, Hoffman's 2 years older than Wickman.

So we get 54 more wins, .46 less runs, 2 years older than Wickman, history of injury, for DOUBLE the salary.

Sounds like a deal to me!

A deal made in Cleveland!

[MCH]

Your pessimism would be best served on Wickman. He's a one year wonder. He's no where near as consistent as Hoffman.

Sure, he earned his money last year. But what about the year before that and the year before that. If you throw out Hoffman's injury year, he's saved 30 or more games 9 years in a row.

Would I rather have Hoffman than Gagne?? Heck, no.

Would I rather have Hoffman at twice the salary of Wickman?? Heck, yeah.

[Michiganbowhunter_SQ2]

hey chris...it could be worse...you could have the tigers pitching staff ....Tigers can put up some runs but the pitchers are the ones that give the game away.....trade ya?

[Tominator]

[ QUOTE ]
Would I rather have Hoffman at twice the salary of Wickman?? Heck, yeah.

[/ QUOTE ]

You think just like Cleveland's front office, which is exactly why Cleveland hasn't won the series since WW II. You spit in the wind of real statistics. Hoffman is not worth whatever they're going to pay him, and he's not 100% better than Wickman.

And it's not pessimism if you have history to back you up. It's fact.

[MCH]

Well, I finally decided to do a little research...

Wickman was making 6 million a year. He was in the last year of his contract and that's why his base salary was only 2.75 million. If you were to resign him I bet you'd be paying a lot closer to the Hoffman contract you're currently getting in.

[Tominator]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I finally decided to do a little research...

Wickman was making 6 million a year. He was in the last year of his contract and that's why his base salary was only 2.75 million. If you were to resign him I bet you'd be paying a lot closer to the Hoffman contract you're currently getting in.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, so do a little "research" on Hoffman. I tried to to apples to apples.

[MCH]

Apples to apples unless you count consistency. Year in year out he produces.

There's also a fear factor for closers. Hoffman is one of the top ones. Rivera, Gagne, Wagner, Hoffman....