A discussion in propoganda:

**muggs** · 02-19-2009, 01:30 PM

Here are some images taken from the NRA publications, "Freedom in Peril." I must credit the artist, some very compelling work.

I actually share many of the same feelings these images portray, but as a whole, my personal take is this sort of fear mongering is really what contributes to the over all blindness and dumbfoundedness of today's culture. And it's really stooping to an almost PETA-like level.

I actually really, really appreciate this one. The mass media coming through the average American family's TV set- probably the most on point image they presented in this piece.

Ah yes, the aninal rights people (I do hate these people so I dig this one too

) The liberal woman...gas can in hand, unshaven legs and Birkenstocks. Again, great artwork...poor attempt at mind control and conditioning.

Every person from a Latin American decent must be here illegally and of course, they're criminals.

Of course, this strong man could be you- defending his family from the "obvious" decline of your neighborhood. SO MAKE SURE YOU PAY YOUR DUES!!!!!

**Gator** · 02-19-2009, 01:35 PM

Great artwork, Thanks for Posting!!!!!!

**nativetexan** · 02-19-2009, 04:42 PM

Nobody is telling you to run out and join the NRA Eric. Obviously it is not for you. However, the artist above accurately (with a little embellishment) portrays many parts of America and the ideals of some of those within. I think everyone is guilty of fear mongering at some point. There is really no way to stop it, and honestly it is a waste of time and off the point to put any effort into it. The NRA is not the only one that uses these tactics. Just about every org or mailing list that I belong to at some point sends out some sort of panic mail every now and then. I enjoy the ability to sort through them and find out what is worthwhile of any kind of action, at any level.

To come on here and criticize people for not trusting their government is really kind of dumb because of an organization they belong to. Especially if you don't know the level of participation each person has in that org. Many people join simply because of strength in numbers. There is no faith in the current administration on the issues that most here hold near and dear. To question them is natural, to disagree and be suspicious of their intentions is natural also. Especially when we have who we have sitting in the house and senate.

You can't take someone's word at face value when they have the voting records these people do.

**stevebeilgard** · 02-19-2009, 07:02 PM

i'm a life member of the nra, and just upgraded. that's good advertising, and telling it pretty much the way it is. thanks for the post.

**m gardner** · 02-19-2009, 07:11 PM

I'm living in what's slowly becoming a nightmare and I haven't lead a sheltered life like most. If you haven't been exposed to illegals, gangs, the Mexican Mafia etc. etc. It's so bad that the bikers aren't wearing colors anymore because of violence directed at them. These guys don't frighten easily. Oh yeah. The stock market has been below the magic number of 7600 for 3 days now. Some experts a few months ago predicted we'd turn to dust shortly after it hit 7600. I live in a 55 plus neighborhood and am partly retired. I expected to live the rest of my life in peace but it's not turning out that way. The illegals here are in quite a quandry now. No jobs here anymore and afraid to go back home because of the violence and they expect their government to fail without our help. So what options do they really have? I've been confronted at least once a week by some idiot. One last week pulled up beside me in stopped traffic and tried to get me to follow him down a side street to look at my BMW motorcycle. He had smoked out his front teeth (can you say crack?) and was obviously stoned. I thanked him for his intrest but just dropped behind him and let traffic push him away. I haven't carried a pistol in years but don't go out without it now.
I see two classes of people developing polically. Those who will give up freedom to be saved and those that will give their lives to preserve our freedoms. I was willing to give my life for your freedom. What about you?
Mark

Canoekiller1 · 02-21-2009, 03:35 PM

Any reply to that Muggs?

**Strut10** · 02-22-2009, 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by muggs

..........this sort of fear mongering is really what contributes to the over all blindness and dumbfoundedness of today's culture.

You mean kinda like the massive fear-mongering campaign Barry Yo and his socialist minions have mounted to justify stealing nearly $1,000,000,000,000,000 from the Americans who earned and own it so it can be given to those who didn't earn it and don't own it??? All in the name of "economic crisis"???? The kind of blindness that allows the majority of Joe 6-packs" to sit idly by whilst our new Chavez north-of -the-border passes whatever by fiat and a stroke of the pen??????

Spot on.

But back to the post at hand. The NRA is the ONLY reason Americans still have retained the right to own ANY guns. One has the choice to join and support the organization or not. I could make the argument that if one owns guns and badmouths the NRA he is a hypocrite.........but I won't. It's a free country (yeah......right). We all have the choice to be the ones who will fight for our rights or be thoe ones who ride the fighters' coattails. I, for one, will be a fighter.

**rookieee** · 02-23-2009, 07:04 AM

thanks great post

**muggs** · 02-23-2009, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by Strut10

You mean kinda like the massive fear-mongering campaign Barry Yo and his socialist minions have mounted to justify stealing nearly $1,000,000,000,000,000 from the Americans who earned and own it so it can be given to those who didn't earn it and don't own it??? All in the name of "economic crisis"???? The kind of blindness that allows the majority of Joe 6-packs" to sit idly by whilst our new Chavez north-of -the-border passes whatever by fiat and a stroke of the pen??????

Yes, pricely like this.

M gardner. What makes you assume I haven't been exposed to illegal immigrants? Until you do some research on the area of Ohio I call home. I do greatly appreciate the fact you served your country. We all owe you a debt of gratitude for that, sincerly.

I've lost a great friend to the misquided Iraq war, and my cousin is currently home from serving his fourth tour over there, and the lastest news is he'll have to go to Afganistan for the second tme. I've never had the honor, would love to be able to say I have. I also don't see how that fact relates to this post.

If you guys would actually open your eyes, you'd see the NRA and their ignorant antics are doing more to hurt the future of gun owners than they are to support it. As with anything, you need to question an organizations motives...than follow the $$.

I'm just looking out for you guys. If choose to live your life under this sort of fear with nothing to support it, all with out actually being able to think for yourselfs, have fun. On the other hand I'm going to realize none of these supposed claims have any bearing on my life- relax, and go hook a trout. I don't fear life and I don't let any group control my thought process.

**wtnhunt** · 02-23-2009, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by muggs

Yes, pricely like this.

M gardner. What makes you assume I haven't been exposed to illegal immigrants? Until you do some research on the area of Ohio I call home. I do greatly appreciate the fact you served your country. We all owe you a debt of gratitude for that, sincerly.

I've lost a great friend to the misquided Iraq war, and my cousin is currently home from serving his fourth tour over there, and the lastest news is he'll have to go to Afganistan for the second tme. I've never had the honor, would love to be able to say I have. I also don't see how that fact relates to this post.

If you guys would actually open your eyes, you'd see the NRA and their ignorant antics are doing more to hurt the future of gun owners than they are to support it. As with anything, you need to question an organizations motives...than follow the $$.

I'm just looking out for you guys. If choose to live your life under this sort of fear with nothing to support it, all with out actually being able to think for yourselfs, have fun. On the other hand I'm going to realize none of these supposed claims have any bearing on my life- relax, and go hook a trout. I don't fear life and I don't let any group control my thought process.

Since you brought up Iraq, I have to comment. Sorry you lost your friend Eric, it would be tough to look past that and try not to let that effect how you view things. It is a shame that any war is ever needed, I do however as do many believe that sometimes there are justifiable reasons for war and I do still think this war was needed. Congress did give Bush the authorization to go to war, and they believed at the time it was in the best interest of keeping this country and our people safe. It is very sad that we have lost a lot of good men and women, but there is a good chance that had those men and women not made their voluntary sacrifices that we might have lost a great deal more innocent children, women, and men right here on our own soil. No doubt the execution of the war has not been handled as best as it could have been, really not any excuses for that. I do believe that history will look at George Bush differently from how he is viewed now at the present time given that for the remaining years of his terms following Sept 11th we were not hit again on our home soil. He will be seen as having been a president who made very tough decisions to do what he felt was right to keep this country safe despite knowing it would severely damage his popularity, guess in that sense he made the sacrifice he felt he had to. Anyone who has ever done well with management knows that being a good leader is not always about a popularity contest, would assume the same would hold true with running government.

Back on the topic of the NRA, I am not a member, never have been although I have given it much consideration. My consideration for joining the NRA has never been out of fear, have never seen the print you posted, not that it would make any difference in whether I would join or not. Unlike you I do believe the NRA does some good. I can see where they do have enough money and power to put pressure on lawmakers, this is the reason why I have given consideration to giving them my money, not for any fear. Without them there is no telling where we might be right now. Like it or not, admit it or not, the NRA is on the side of gunowners in this country and they do work towards ensuring our second amendment rights remain preserved as the founding fathers expected them to be.

**muggs** · 02-23-2009, 02:43 PM

I'll never say war is needed, but at the present time it is necessary, if you follow me. War is certainly not needed, but I don't think mankind will realize this fact anytime soon, especially considering the fact that the majority of wars are fought in the mind of what each man refers to as their God. That's an entirely different subject, for a different day though.

I supported the war effort. Saddam needed to be removed from power no doubt, but it was not carried out properly. That's on the Bush administration.

There's a good book, I cannot think of the title right now for the life of me. But it's written by a former Marine Corps. General. It states the fact that this man, along with Norman Schwartzcoff recommended "X" amount of troops for the initial surge. Bush and his staff took this into consideration, than sent in 1/5th the troops Schwartzcoff recommended. Schwartzcoff also predicted a tremendous insurgence from sympathic "extremists" from the surround area. This was also not truly taken into account by Bush and the initial war planners.

As far as the fear goes...I don't think you can look at those images without realizing they're meant to invoke fear in the viewer.

That's basically Propoganda 101, first day stuff. Fear is used and comes streaming through your TV everyday. It's used in the majority of Ads even.

But you hit on what's basically my point. The NRA's main motives aren't to protect your rights...they're more interested in keeping money in gun companies' pockets. They're accomplishing this by selling their members that your rights are their main concern and they keep you in fear to control you.

In reality, they make stupid decisions, give anti's tons of "ammo" (for lack of a better term), and basically make gun owners and hunters look like morons. Being a gun owner and outdoorsman myself, I get associated with that type of lunacy and it makes me upset.

**Gator** · 02-23-2009, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by muggs

I'll never say war is needed, but at the present time it is necessary, if you follow me. War is certainly not needed, but I don't think mankind will realize this fact anytime soon, especially considering the fact that the majority of wars are fought in the mind of what each man refers to as their God. That's an entirely different subject, for a different day though.

I supported the war effort. Saddam needed to be removed from power no doubt, but it was not carried out properly. That's on the Bush administration.

There's a good book, I cannot think of the title right now for the life of me. But it's written by a former Marine Corps. General. It states the fact that this man, along with Norman Schwartzcoff recommended "X" amount of troops for the initial surge. Bush and his staff took this into consideration, than sent in 1/5th the troops Schwartzcoff recommended. Schwartzcoff also predicted a tremendous insurgence from sympathic "extremists" from the surround area. This was also not truly taken into account by Bush and the initial war planners.

As far as the fear goes...I don't think you can look at those images without realizing they're meant to invoke fear in the viewer.

That's basically Propoganda 101, first day stuff. Fear is used and comes streaming through your TV everyday. It's used in the majority of Ads even.

But you hit on what's basically my point. The NRA's main motives aren't to protect your rights...they're more interested in keeping money in gun companies' pockets. They're accomplishing this by selling their members that your rights are their main concern and they keep you in fear to control you.

In reality, they make stupid decisions, give anti's tons of "ammo" (for lack of a better term), and basically make gun owners and hunters look like morons. Being a gun owner and outdoorsman myself, I get associated with that type of lunacy and it makes me upset.

Um, Eric, I am almost certan That Gen H. Norman Schwartzkopf had nothing to do with the Iraq Invasion in 2003.

**muggs** · 02-23-2009, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by Gator

Um, Eric, I am almost certan That Gen H. Norman Schwartzkopf had nothing to do with the Iraq Invasion in 2003.

Umm, Jason, he served as an advisor to the the committee planning the war. His advice was not heeded.

As I said, one of the Generals who was advising along with Schwartkopf wrote a book about it. I cannot remember the name, it's been few years. I'll try to find it. It's a very, very, very enlightening read.

---->

**muggs** · 02-23-2009, 03:32 PM

I sent my cousin an email. He's the one who told me about the book. He's also served 4 tours over there and is still actively serving as a Gunnery Sgt.