How Should It Be Handled?

[Jeramie]

We have a guy in our congregation that is really over the top. Keep in mind I belong to a Pentecostal Church so we shout, play loud music, etc. This guy stands out.

During Songs he shouts the words. During our Pastors preaching he shouts out stuff trying to accentuate the sermon. Not long ago during Alter call he shouted, "As the Sparrow flies at night!" Which not only confused us all but really distracted everyone. Thats his MO. He waits until it gets quiet and then yells something out.

I know it sounds petty but honestly its rather bothersome to our entire congregation. He also ran off a new girl because he ran straight up to her right after she started and said, "I dont know why but God told me to get your phone number." She was probably late 20's and this guy is in his 70's with poor hygiene.

He is also a couple of sandwiches short of a picnic (to be polite). Everyone has prayed about it but it hasn't helped yet. His shouting continues to get louder and louder and he is often well out of line. Our Pastor is very reserved and tip toes a lot to keep from upsetting people on personal issues. He finally mentioned this guy during our Choir Practice this past Sunday and wanted to know what we thought. Of course everyone suggestion was to Pray.

Often when we play and sing he will shout (really loud) stuff during the song. I watch him on occasion and I see him lay his head back and crack his eyes to see if anyone in the Choir is watching. Im convinced he does a lot of it for attention. Its very, very inappropriate.

Anyway, what do you all think?

[bowhunter56]

Some folks have a way about them, that they can say anything to anyone and not offend them, if your not that type, say something to your minister, i am sure he can settle the fellow down.

[Gator]

Jeramie, need me to come up ther, sit in, observe, then talk to him?????

From what you are saying, sounds like he may in fact be after attention, that's the first thing I though while reading this. How do you handle it, well, in a church setting, I don't know. Maybe the pastor SHOULD be the one to talk to the gentlemen, or if you have Deacons (my ignorance), one of them could talk to him. I think someone from the congregation talking to him may make him even louder

[Jeramie]

Some folks have a way about them, that they can say anything to anyone and not offend them, if your not that type, say something to your minister, i am sure he can settle the fellow down.

Our pastor is the one that asked what we should do about him.....

This guy is going to fly off the handle im pretty sure. He is wound tight and has some serious issues.

[Jeramie]

Jeramie, need me to come up ther, sit in, observe, then talk to him?????

From what you are saying, sounds like he may in fact be after attention, that's the first thing I though while reading this. How do you handle it, well, in a church setting, I don't know. Maybe the pastor SHOULD be the one to talk to the gentlemen, or if you have Deacons (my ignorance), one of them could talk to him. I think someone from the congregation talking to him may make him even louder

Ive got a spare bed and Ill fire up the grease for the fish.....

Seriously, this guy has issues and im pretty sure he is looking for attention the majority of the time. Yes (most Churches) have deacons and this one does too. I have a feeling that our Pastor will step up and say something eventually. He was looking for a less impactful way of talking with this guy and thats pretty much what I was asking about too.

Then again someone may just have to make him mad. Who knows.....

[Andrea]

Easy..............you need to have a group including the preacher speak to him in private. Just tell him that his enthusiam is welcome but ask that he tone it down a couple of notches. It is disruptive during the sermons and distractive during the singing. And also that you have been asked by many members of the congregation to speak with him about it.

Important: if this fella doesn't comply then you need to find out all you can about him and most importantly his mental state. Seriously, he could have Tourette's or he could simply be certifiable. Then you can will have to take legal action to have him removed. ( Not being mean, but what else do you do???)

[buckee]

When I first started reading your thread, I thought of Satan. His demons like having fun and creating a ruckus in church, just to take the attention from the Lord, and what is being preached.
Read this and maybe the Lord will open up some answers for you.

acts 16: 16-18
16Once when we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a slave girl who had a spirit by which she predicted the future. She earned a great deal of money for her owners by fortune-telling. 17This girl followed Paul and the rest of us, shouting, "These men are servants of the Most High God, who are telling you the way to be saved." 18She kept this up for many days. Finally Paul became so troubled that he turned around and said to the spirit, "In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!" At that moment the spirit left her.

[popgun]

Jeramie, if there was ever a time that I would advise to let God handle the situation, this would be the time.

What makes you and some of the others, (including your pastor) think it is their duty, bestowed on them by God, to tell this man how to conduct his worship?
You can wave your arms around and hold your hands up towards the heavens and do the side to side wave, stomp your feet, speak in tongues, or sing your heart out off tune. Although some may think you are all a bunch of nuts, you feel like you are endowed with the “Holy Spirit” and aren’t in control of your own bodies any more.
If you feel that God Almighty is in control, I say get out of the way and let Him drive.

I have never heard of such a thing as what some of the responses are eluding to in this thread.

I was a founding member of the Christian Motorcyclists Association, and rode, worshiped, prayed, and witnessed to the lost, for many years with this fine group of Christians. Slowly our non-denominational or multi-denominational organization was taken over by charismatic Christians called Pentecostals.
These new members pushed many of us away because we were not as charismatic as they were.
Since we did not speak in tongues or wave our hands in the air, we were preached at as not being saved, being without the Holy Spirit, or simply lost souls.
Finally, and without ceremony, many of us faded away, having been made to feel uncomfortable in the very organization we started.
Some of these holier than thou Christians demanded that God help them when they prayed.
They told me that God was their Father, and that as His children they were allowed to make demands of their father, just as children make demands of their biological father.
You should have heard them making demands of their Heavenly Father to heal one of our members who had cancer. The cancer victim died.
The ones who prayed their demands blamed the non-charismatics, because we did not show the faith that they did. (by the way….If one of my children made demands, I would have slapped them silly.)

If you do anything at all about the situation, you should see if the 70 year old man needs a hearing aid.
It is possible that he cannot hear the appropriate times to yell "Halleluiah", or "Amen", or "Praise the Lord", or "A wet bird never flies at night."

Maybe he is like my father who now suffers from dementia and Alzheimer’s disease, and when he doesn’t understand something he loudly laughs, because he now must let God control his body.

Whatever you do, please don’t drive away the very person who may need your congregational fellowship the most.

I pray that you all will make the “right” decision. Amen
....popgun

[Bachflock]

My knee jerk reaction is to say we all know that Satan is the author of confusion. If this guy is intentionally disrupting the services then he has no good intent and needs to be asked to leave. The probem should be confronted instead of being allowed to further damage the church body. Christ, Himself, walked into the temple and knocked over tables and drove out those who had no real intent on honoring God with their presence. However...

Let's say this gent legitimately doesn't understand what he is doing is wrong. I'd say the Elders/Deacons of your church, if you have them, should pull him aside in a fact finding, nonconfrontational situation to get to know him. Open up a line of communication, make him feel welcome but lay down some ground rules. Even if he has good intentions (which from what you describe I sincerely have my doubts) his behaviour is damaging and unacceptable. Help him understand why. If he listens and trys to comprehend then the heart of compassion will take you a long way. If he resists then I'd dare say his true intentions will be revealed.

[wtnhunt]

While it may be a cry for attention and a discussion with him in private with the preacher is probably in order, in a pentecostal church, I would say that occasional outbursts might be somewhat expected Jeramie, and some by the same member or members of the congregation repeatedly. Seems kind of common to me that some also fake speaking in tongues to try and fit in as well. Maybe this is his way of thinking he has to fit in and might be good for the preacher or deacons to discuss that with him. Everyone is different though, and different does not necessarily mean bad or wrong and I would not make that assumption. Like popgun says here would be careful not to run this person off as he may have the need to be right where he is more than you and your congregation realize.

[Jeramie]

What makes you and some of the others, (including your pastor) think it is their duty, bestowed on them by God, to tell this man how to conduct his worship?

Its is a Pentecostal Church loud worship is absolutely fine. This gentleman's conduct is not worshiped based. Its self involved. Church is a time to Praise and worship God. Not a time to pat yourself on the back and demand attention for those trying to Praise. Our Pastor is simply trying to keep Church a place to worship God whole heartedly and without distraction. Because he was chosen by God that is in fact his job.

You can wave your arms around and hold your hands up towards the heavens and do the side to side wave, stomp your feet, speak in tongues, or sing your heart out off tune. Although some may think you are all a bunch of nuts, you feel like you are endowed with the “Holy Spirit” and aren’t in control of your own bodies any more.

That is a blanket statement and thought some may claim certain things, it certainly doesn't cover everyone in a single denomination. For one I was raised Southern Baptist. For me to believe anything (including running, shouting, raising your hands, etc) I would have had to have a personal experience that lead me to do so.

For one, raising your hands is nothing more than submitting. You'd be amazed at how many people would fight with everything in them to not raise their hands. Its simply a matter over overcoming pride in Praise.

Since I converted I have had the Holy Ghost. I was very much in control of my body and very much aware of what was going on. Thats not to say its not an immense burst of emotion but its nothing like the tantrum you've described. Its sheer joy.

If you feel that God Almighty is in control, I say get out of the way and let Him drive.

God is in Charge. Yet there is an old saying, "Dont play in the highway and expect God to save you."

We know there is a problem and need to address it. Someone is disrupting services and its greatly affecting other members who are there with a hole heart. Christianity comes with great privileges but it also comes with requirements and duties. This man is clearly interrupting for his gain. This man is still a very real problem, and its up to the leaders of the Church to find a solution.

I was a founding member of the Christian Motorcyclists Association, and rode, worshiped, prayed, and witnessed to the lost, for many years with this fine group of Christians. Slowly our non-denominational or multi-denominational organization was taken over by charismatic Christians called Pentecostals.
These new members pushed many of us away because we were not as charismatic as they were. Since we did not speak in tongues or wave our hands in the air, we were preached at as not being saved, being without the Holy Spirit, or simply lost souls.
Finally, and without ceremony, many of us faded away, having been made to feel uncomfortable in the very organization we started.
Some of these holier than thou Christians demanded that God help them when they prayed.
They told me that God was their Father, and that as His children they were allowed to make demands of their father, just as children make demands of their biological father.
You should have heard them making demands of their Heavenly Father to heal one of our members who had cancer. The cancer victim died.
The ones who prayed their demands blamed the non-charismatics, because we did not show the faith that they did. (by the way….If one of my children made demands, I would have slapped them silly.)

Here is where Im completely confused. Where in the realm of this thread does that hold a slight bit of validity? Popgun, I know you're an older guy and I would have guessed in your years you would have learned to not lump everything together based on labels, but what you've done is just pointed out your dislike for Pentecostals and you've covered an entire denomination under a blanket. Therefore spelling your dislike for all Pentecostals because of a title and not their hearts.

Not only does that story have NO relevance to my inquiry, it implies that we are off the wall (by direct comparison based souly on the Label "Pentecostal").

Taken that into account I could easily compare all bikers under a blanket of Rowdy, rude, tattooed, cussing, Sturgis rally, rough necks but I know better. Having a bike doesn't make you any more of a bad person than owning a bicycle.

In that same "mood", being Pentecostal doesn't in any way, form, fashion, or shape make you an off the wall, fly by the minute, nut bag Christian. Not to mention the implication that it would rush a judgment on another soul. We love God and thank him for Christ. To see every soul enter into Heaven would be absolutely Ideal, including this one. That is why this isn't taken lightly. This decision has been toiled over by our Pastors and elders in the Church. This man didn't simply get loud once or twice and everyone tried to boot him out. Your rush to judgment makes far less sense than the rush to judgment you've obviously placed on the situation due to the Pentecostal tag.

For that matter there are a few things youve NEVER obviously tired to understand about the fore mentioned groups motives. I totally disagree with their decision to blame death on any other member.

However, the Bible does read that as Children of God we can come Boldy to the Throne of Judgment and where as any two will agree it will be so in Heaven. Having Faith and calling one thing as thought it were (cancer healed, death reversed, etc) is not a bad thing.

The Bible says that God is no respecter of man also. Therefore if God has ever healed one of any affliction he must then offer that same healing to others. The same is with gifts. If we ever want the power Paul or even Elijah had we simply need to seek it with truth and earnisty. That is a Promise from God. Calling on that promise does not Anger God.

God isn't flesh that snaps when something rubs him the wrong way. Be that the case Christ would have never become flesh and man kind would have been ashes long before we came along.

If you do anything at all about the situation, you should see if the 70 year old man needs a hearing aid.
It is possible that he cannot hear the appropriate times to yell "Halleluiah", or "Amen", or "Praise the Lord", or "A wet bird never flies at night."

This was actually pointed out to me by another member. It was simply a typ' O. He is actually around 60. Sorry about that. If I had to guess I wouldnt guess him any older than 58-62.

Maybe he is like my father who now suffers from dementia and Alzheimer’s disease, and when he doesn’t understand something he loudly laughs, because he now must let God control his body.

If that were the case dont you think this topic would have never been on Realtree? It would have never been mentioned by our Pastor or anyone else! Where in my character or even in this post did you EVER gather that I or anyone in my Church (especialy our Pastors) are people of poor character that rush to Judgment? Where in all of this did you see that this wasnt a viable question and need for response? Youve obviously labeled us as off the wall people. Is that where our Character and this decision became a harsh Judgment against this man in your eyes? Seriously, im trying to understand.

Whatever you do, please don’t drive away the very person who may need your congregational fellowship the most.

That is the very reason this man hasn't been ran off. Our Pastor said his biggest fear was this man would leave and this is not his desire at all. Its not a simple situation. As I stated above, seeing everyone breach those pearly gates would be ideal, running people off wont get anywhere near that goal. This hasn't been taken with a grain of Salt.......

This is eternity we are talking about here......

I would say that occasional outbursts might be somewhat expected Jeramie

Absolutely right, the occasional outburst would be expected..... Only this guy does it all service long at any given chance.


Keep in mind ive been in Churches my entire life (given all of the Preachers in my family). He may occasionally have good intentions, I cant deny him that, but for the most part its all Intentional. This isn't a poor judge of character on my behalf. This is something that has been witnessed but the entire congregation and has finally scraped on everyone so much that it became topic.

While this guy isn't quite right he is sane enough to raise kids, have a truck (and license for that matter), and so forth. Also, keep in mind that our Pastor and wife and two of the most God Fearing, kindest, genuine people that have ever walked this plant. Id not be stretching to say they are more dedicated to God than I ever knew a person could be.

When my pastor brings this up as in issue.... Believe that it is exactly that, an issue.

[popgun]

Jeramie, I am not a Bible Scholar and don't pretend to be one.
I am sorry that you took so much of my comments the wrong way.
I simply attempted to answer your question, which was, "Anyway, what do you all think?"

You took many of my comments out of context and commented on them individually.
Try reading the entire paragraphs, instead of one sentence at a time.
I don't know what you are talking about when you say the "tantrum I described".
I was only commenting on the question you posed, given the simple descriptions of the situation you described.
Now, you are adding more to the description of the situation than you first related.
I think it is unfair to judge my response on facts that you never related in the first place.
I never lumped all the charismatics together, but it appears that you are doing your best to do just that.
You simply asked a question, and I answered.
If you did not want an independent opinion, why ask for one?
No further apologies from me.
I don't think I have said anything out of line.
....popgun

[preacherman]

Jeramie..........

To attempt to answer your question in a Biblical manner, instead of my own opinion, I would try to handle it this way............as a Pastor.

The first thing that I would do, as a Pastor, is to go to my board and express my concerns and then simply follow the steps of the Bible as outlined in Matthew chapter 18. First of all, you approach the man individually and express your concern. You don't have to do this in an unloving manner.............but approach him and express your concern.

Secondly, if the first step doesn't work.............then you take two or three and express the concern again. Simply let the man know that you are not doing this in an unloving heart; but rather a heart of concern for the church and the unity of the church.

And then lastly, if the first two steps do not work (which in most cases they do) then you bring him before the church.

This is much more than an issue that deals with the church or the Holy Spirit or anything else. This deals with everyone else being fed and not being disrupted while doing so. I have been in churches before where Preachers were being "shouted down", as I call it, while they preached. A man was preaching one time and a man kept shouting loudly after every statement that he made. One statement was "Keep on telling the truth!". And he would yell this loudly. Finally, after about the 10th time the preacher said, "If you would sit down and be quiet, I would keep on telling the truth!" I don't remember anything the preacher said that day, other than what he told that man. And the reason being is because the man was disruptive.

It is issues like this that are all too often swept under the rug instead of being dealt with. We often times get the feelings, "Well, I just don't want to offend anyone." But scripturally, this is not the right attitude to have. And again, this is my opinion based on scripture.

Blessings,
Scott

[wtnhunt]

Keep in mind ive been in Churches my entire life (given all of the Preachers in my family). He may occasionally have good intentions, I cant deny him that, but for the most part its all Intentional.

One question Jeramie. Does this guy have involvement with any regular activities and is he received by other members as all would be despite the idea that he seems not quite right? Maybe he does need some attention and has no ill intentions, his outbursts just being a cry for attention. Maybe if that is the case, if someone takes the time to talk with him, he might not have the need for the cries for attention. From what I have read of what you have said here, you are trying to figure out what to do, but NO ONE has talked with the guy and been straight forward about what he is doing causing there to be distraction away from the message. Would certainly be worth trying to discuss with him before considering banishing him.